When we go out to eat, my husband always asks, “How much should I tip?” It seems as though this flexible figure stymies many patrons, especially when the service is above average or far less than stellar.
As a former waitress and hostess, I can honestly say that dealing with the hungry public can be challenging and exhausting, and that servers deserve far more than the reduced minimum wage plus tips the government says they’re worth. With more and more people seeking second jobs or temp work to boost their incomes, this issue is more important now than in previous years.
How do you determine how much to tip?
Here are a few basic guidelines to help you out:
Tipping Guide for Good and Bad Service
- The general rule of thumb (for me) is to round the bill up to the nearest $10, and leave 20%. This is easy to calculate, and it rewards servers for good service. I know many people claim 15% is adequate, but keep in mind that your server is making just over $2 an hour without tips to run him- or herself ragged. Go ahead and splurge for the 20%. You’ll make your server feel good, and you’ll get great service when you return to the restaurant.
- If you receive poor service, don’t leave without providing a tip. Believe me, a $1 tip will be noticed much more than no tip, since your server may think you just forgot. Before you leave a lower tip, however, try to take into consideration the staffing and patron level in the restaurant, and remember that your server may just be having a bad day. Leaving a pleasant note of encouragement, or a decent tip, may be enough to turn their day around.
- Include a kind word and a smile with every tip and try to clean up after yourself as much as possible. If my kids leave food on the floor or sticky messes on the table, I ask for a dustpan or a wet cloth to return the table to its condition prior to our arrival. You never know if your server will turn out to be your next door neighbor, a single mom, a volunteer firefighter, or your child’s teacher, so treating them with kindness and respect is a required part of every tip.
- If you receive truly awful service, talk to your server. If the service doesn’t improve after communicating your needs and failed expectations, then ask to speak to a manager. Never go straight to the boss with your complaints when there’s a possibility of rectifying the situation one-on-one.
- Don’t skimp on tips in order to save money! If you can’t afford to tip adequately, choose someplace less expensive or opt for an establishment where you’ll serve yourself.
- If your server only brings your drinks, or the food is served buffet-style, it’s appropriate to leave a lesser tip, but 10-15% still applies.
- If your chosen establishment includes a bartender, hostess, bus boy, or other additional serving staff, keep in mind that your server will probably have to share tips with these other members of the wait staff, as well. In this case, it’s best not to tip solely on the performance of one staff member.
While it’s important to live frugally and pinch pennies when possible, tipping is not an area in which you should be trimming your budget. If you’re going to eat out, an adequate tip is a standard part of the bill.
Do you agree? How do you determine what to tip for good or bad service? You may also want to hear other people’s opinions on tipping, as we’ve discussed this topic before both here and here.
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I agree with a lot of points raised. I always bend over backward to treat wait staff as I’d like to be treated, i.e., being polite, saying thank you, avoiding special requests, etc.
The second bullet point was over the top though. Leave a pleasant note of encouragement when I get poor service? You’re kidding, right? Service is the central pillar of a waitress’ job description. When I go to work, I don’t get to omit important parts of my job because I’m having a bad day (or expect a happy, encouraging note from my boss or clients for doing so). I’m paying for good food and good service; it’s not my job to “turn their day around.”
I’m with you on this Rick. If I am a regular in a restaurant and my waitperson is having a bad day, I meet leave a note of encouragement. This is, after all. someone with whom I have an ongoing relationship of some sort.
If I just happen to come into a place where I have no established relationship and I get bad attitude, we’re done. I’m not out to provide warm fuzzies or offer therapy to my waitperson. This is a professional relationship and the waitperson is not being professional. Depending on the behavior, I may request a new waitperson before the end of the meal, I may seek out the manager to mention it, or I may just leave a small tip. If it’s my first time in a place, it will prevent my going back.
On the other side of the coin… I took my Wife to a place that was a Restaurant plus a concert venue- we had tickets for the show. Our meal was very good (although it was barely warm by the time we got it…some 45 minutes after we ordered… the service was terrible- One more Example: I had to wait 20 minutes for a bottled beer! I know that sometimes things get real busy, but honestly the service was p*ss poor… Our tab came to 65 dollars and change, I gave her 80 dollars cash (which was all I had on me) and told her to keep the change… After the band started, she actually came back to our table, and asked about my tip… “Was there something wrong with the food or the service?” This woman was actually p*ssed that she “only” received a near 15 dollar tip on a 65 dollar meal! I calculate that as 23% – am I wrong? IMO she didn’t deserve even half that amount!
Vito,
You are certainly not wrong. I am currently a server, putting myself through college with the money I earn. I LOVE PEOPLE LIKE YOU. I’ve had countless tables like the one described in your previous comment and it takes a toll on you as a person. When people constantly demand it is hard to not get frazzled. Thank you for being such a stand up person. I cannot speak for that server, but if that was me, that comment you left would have definitely made my day. So thank you.
Em
I’m in total agreement!
I was dining alone once in a popular restaurant and noted that in the booth next to mine there were four elderly women dining together, one of which was constantly harassing the Waitress, who was doing her best to meet this woman’s demands… I witnessed a plate being brought back twice, and this woman constantly stopping the Waitress while she was making her rounds and demanding this-and-that… more water, another drink, more napkins, etc..etc. After the table of four had left, I was headed for the restroom and noticed that they had only left her a ONE DOLLAR tip! I had the same Waitress, and I thought her service was outstanding, and I also noticed that her nerves were frazzled by the woman in the next booth….she was close to tears. Besides leaving the Waitress a very generous tip myself, I put another five dollars down in that booth next to mine, along with a note that stated that I had seen it all, and she deserved better than that… I also stated that I thought her service was outstanding, and to not let people like that to bother her too much… I hope I made her day, because she deserved it!
You are a very rare and generous soul. That server probably sat down and cried for a few minutes over that act of kindness, which will be probably be remembered by her far longer than you realize.
As a server myself, I have some really kind customers who I am always glad to see. Some of them are on tight incomes and tip just what they can, but always provide a laugh, a great story, or just an amazing attitude to make up the deficit. Whenever I get a miserable rotter like the customer you described, it makes it so much better to have one of those great regulars come in because he/she always makes up for some of the loss, even if it can’t be done monetarily. I kind of figure you’d wind up on that list of my special customers, so you probably have already made it onto another server’s list somewhere else!
Keep showing that kind of terrific character, Vito! It won’t go unappreciated!
I agree with the writer’s comments. As a matter of fact, at a nearby restaurant where I often eat, I get the $10 senior’s special and I leave a $5 tip, which comes to 50%. When I eat at other places, where the meals are more expensive, I usually leave at least 40%.
Ha! I basically stiffed my wait staff at dinner last night. I got pretty good service on a $120.00 dinner and left a fiver as the tip because of all the bitchy waiter comments here! Let me tell all of you it felt really good!
James,
So you basically left a less than 5% tip for a server you said gave you pretty good service, all because of some comments on this blog? Did you ask the server if he was one of the “bitchy waiters” commenting here? Did you tell him up front when you first were greeted by him that no matter what he did, service wise, you were only going to give him a less than 5% tip at the end of your meal because of what you read here? I am sure you did, because your a stand up kind of guy, and you can laugh and feel good about yourself for sticking it to all the “bitchy waiters” here on-line. But you didn’t really stick it to any of us on-line. You did stick it that server last night though, who, is probably still wondering what he did wrong “service wise” to get that small of a tip. Be proud of yourself, for being such a stand up guy.
Adrian,
No, come to think of it I really don’t feel bad at all. I have learned from this site and its postings that many waiters don’t give a crap about their customers at all. Why should I be the only one being a stand up guy as you put it. Do you think the waitress that gave such bad service at my last $250.00 business dinner lost any sleep about making my dinner a failure…. I don’t think she even gave it a second thought.
For years I have tipped well and have received service that ranged from pretty damn good to piss poor. Usually it is mediocre at best anymore. I am sick and tired of wait staff treating me poorly.
If you are a server… I would suggest your ask your fellow waiters and waitress to kick up the service a few notches! After a few good visits to restaurants, I may change my evil ways. Having waited tables, I know that this is a two way street. Waiter gives good service … customer leaves good tip.
I am sick and tired of having wait staff that don’t give a crap ruining my experience and then bitching in public forums. Most don’t care about me so why should I care about them?
James,
I agree that there lots of bad servers out there that only care about the money, I’ve worked with some of them over the years and they never last long. I also believe that you should not tip for poor service, but like you said the service you received was pretty good. I posted this awhile back ago on this very site, it pretty much sums up my thoughts on service and waiting on tables. I hope you take the time to read it, and maybe you’ll see that we are not all “bitchy waiters”
“Cheiftan, I am sorry, but I disagree with your statement that servers in the US work in a “thoroughly abusive employment relationship” I am a server, part time. I have been working in restuarants since I was 15 years old. (I’m 50 now) I have a full time “Day Job” that I make very good money at. I only work part time as a server. Why do I do that, its because the restaurant business is in my blood, and I’m very good at it. I have been fortunate over all these years to work for owners and management that taught me how important good customer service is. I love it, I love trying to give each and every guest that walks in to have the absolute best dining experience they can have. I want them to come back, the owners want them to come back, and a restaurant will not survive if we don’t keep them coming back. It is a extrmemely competitive business here in the US. Over time I see waiting on tables as more like contract work, I sign on with your restaurant because I think I can make more money at it than I did at the previous one. You always start at the bottom and keep working your way up. Dishwasher, Busboy, Prep Cook, Line cook, Server, whatever suits you the best. (And trust me I have done all those things) But waiting on tables and taking care of our Guests is where I found out that I was the best at. You, the Guest, deserve the best possible dining experience that our restaurant can give you. It’s my job on the front lines, face to face with you, to make sure that happens. I want you to come back, I want you to tell all your friends about the wonderful service and excellent food you had at our restaurant. I don’t feel like a slave, I don’t feel like a servant, I feel like I am part of a team that is centered on your dining experience. I love this job, I really do, it’s fun, it’s exciting, it’s a very personal experience for me (and hopefully for you our guests). That being said, here in the US, you are never, ever required to tip me. EVER!!!! Let me make that point clear, you do not have to tip me. I have never ever felt entitled to any sort of a tip, I always have to earn it by providing you the guest with outstanding service. If you don’t want to tip me, I am OK with that, I will make it up on my other tables, so long as you’re happy with the service and the food that we provided you, then I did my job. If you come in on a Tuesday night and don’t tip me, then come back the next night even knowing you did not tip me the night before, I will try even harder to give you better service, because thats what I do!!! (Besides, if you come back the second night then I HAVE done my job!!)
I did not create the system we have here in the US, I just work in it, and I am DAMN PROUD to do so!!!! It will help put my kids through college, and it’s setting me up with a nice nest egg for retirement. Our system here is not immoral, it is not slavery (I Chose to do it) It is what it is. So come visit me at our restaurant, and we’ll introduce you to some of the best steaks on the planet…..no Tip required!!!!!!”
Respectfully,
AJ Stone
Server at Kahill’s Steak and Chophouse
South Sioux City, NE
United States of America
James,
Has it EVER occurred to you that the wait staff you stiffed that night were working really hard to provide you with quality to service in expectations of compensation for that work so that they could pay their fricking bills and buy food for their own families? Compensating someone for services rendered isn’t a game. This is very often a matter of survival for some of these people, a means to keep a roof over their heads and put decent, modest food in front of their kids.
Heavens know that’s the situation in my household. I work as a server at a small, family-owned Italian restaurant walking distance from my home in Texas (where servers do get that $2.13 hourly wage so disparaged in these comments!) so that I don’t spend gas money or add wear-and-tear on my car. I actually have 2 degrees, but am doing 2 unpaid internships to get professional experience in my field; thus, I find myself working part-time as a server to pay bills and help support my family. Those internships are more than 30 miles away, which I don’t earn money for doing yet must pay for gas, etc. somehow just to get my foot in the door professionally somewhere, somehow.
On average weekends, I make $150-$175 in tips for long hours on my feet, running back and forth endlessly, cleaning up disgusting messes that parents NEVER allow their precious offspring to make at home under ANY circumstances, and put up with attitudes from people that would get my mouth slapped off by my mama no matter how old I am if I dared espouse them.
I do this as cheerfully and conscientiously as possible because I believe that Kahlil Gibran was correct in writing that if we cannot work with love but only distaste, then we should sit before the temple gates and beg alms from those who can work with joy. So I work at a crappy but HONEST JOB to earn HONEST MONEY so that I can provide a decent existence for my family while striving for a break to get into a career that is worthwhile and worth loving.
James, I am a typical server. I am not expecting handouts. I don’t expect 20% tips for average service, but I do expect fair and just treatment from a person I treat fairly, justly, and respectfully. Even given my strict financial situation, I refuse to to give less than 15% for tips as long as the server performed his/her duties because THAT my dear is the humane way to treat another human being! If I can’t do that much for a worker, then I need to just cook for myself at home.
Try to remember that the server you stiffed after eating a delicious, well-served meal might wind up skipping meals so that his/her kids get a little more in their lunchboxes that week. Just so YOU could laugh about saving a few dollars at their expense. Such a nice fella!
Sincerely,
An Offended Lady
I don’t necessarily have an issue with the article, however I take issue with a few of the items:
– Try to clean up after yourself? Honestly, I always do, however I take issue that you want us, as paying patrons, who are also supposed to round up the bill including top and provide 20%, which can end up being greater than 20% based on your methodology of calculation, need to also clean up after ourselves? We are paying you for a service, and while I agree it’s the gentlemanly thing to do with regards to cleaning up, I also believe it’s rude to request that customers do it. If I am paying in excess of 20%, I think clean up should be included.
– If you receive truly awful service, talk to your server. No. Sorry, but this one is pure bs. You, as a server have a job, and unfortunately that includes making me, the customer feel welcomed. If you are too busy, or if you are having bad day, that sucks, but you have failed by not making me and my family feel welcomed, and therefore I will be going to your supervisor. You state that there’s a possibility of rectifying the situation one-on-one, but it reeks of covering your own ass when you did a piss poor job in the first place.
There are a few other items I don’t agree with, but they aren’t really that important. At the end of the day, this article was ridiculously biased, which is expected, but provided no real insight. Basically it comes off as “we should get tips because we make $2 / hr,” when it really should be “Tip well if you receive good service.”
You provide a service. I will tip well when you do a good job, and I will tip you poorly to not-at-all if you don’t. And I will go directly to your manager after I have given a poor tip / non-existent tip afterward. I don’t care if you had a bad day, I don’t care if it’s busy, and I sure as hell don’t care if there’s a bar if I’m not buying drinks. You are my point of contact, so you will get a tip if you deserve it.
In addition-
If all of those who cannot afford to pay, do something for me. Tell your server right when you get seated that they will not receive more than a $5.00 tip or whatever your tip preference is. If you do not have the balls to do so, then you shouldn’t be hiding behind that piece of paper where it says TIP _______.
With all due respect to all those who have said that tipping is a gesture and not required take in account this IF YOUR SERVER IS GOOD:
– I am graduating University in 16 days
– I have been a server for 5 years
– I live on my own without the help of mommy and daddy
– I slave day in and day out to be good at my job. Regardless of the race or physical appearance of some of our patrons, I give 150%. However, there are days when I come out of work feeling so depressed because I cannot pay my rent this month due to the clients thinking that $5 on ANY bill is sufficient enough.
– For all those people who have never had a “mediocre” job growing up remember this. You have to start somewhere to get somewhere. My colleagues and I slave away to pay for college tuition, rent, bills and for food. I understand, there is others out there that do the same (and have “big boy jobs”), but the difference between you and I is that:
1. I deal with angry hungry customers who are like those featured on the Snickers Commercials.
2. I deal with the mess ups of the patron, the mess ups of the kitchen, and I am the one that pretty much pays for it. (Literally and figuratively- guess what, when you do not tip, that does not mean I get to NOT tip my bartenders, busboys, and food runners). Yes, servers DO mess up sometimes. Everyone is human. I understand our society is all technologically advanced and such, but I am a HUMAN not a COMPUTER.
3. I deal with managers who do not give respect to their employees but somehow expect to receive it.
4. I deal with people who think they are the only ones in the restaurant that want cucumber, lemon, and lime in their waters and want to modify the world out of their meal. As a waiter, you tend to wonder why they even go out MAKE IT YOURSELF.
One last thing, no matter what your argument is in regards to my hourly wage, I have to do something called “declare tips” at the end of the night. Which means that I have to report how much I made. The beautiful IRS believes that no matter what we should take home at least 12% of our sales (which doesn’t happen very often) this declaration gets taken out of my paycheck. So that minimum wage all of you talk about really does not exist because I still have to declare AT LEAST 12% of my sales EVEN IF I DID NOT MAKE IT which results in ME PAYING YOU TO EAT!…. hopefully this helps….I can go on and on but I wont.
TIPPING 20% IS NOT SO BAD. Because if you’re willing to pay $150.00 on a restaurant meal, that means the server is working 3x as hard as a tab that is $50.00. That extra money shouldn’t hurt you (since you’re already spending so much).
-A 5 year server who is putting herself through graduate school TO BECOME your therapist.
Em,
I D-E-T-E-S-T misleading information!
You said “I still have to declare AT LEAST 12% of my sales EVEN IF I DID NOT MAKE IT which results in ME PAYING YOU TO EAT!”
Uh, “declare” means that 12% of your sales are reported as taxable income.
Unless there is now a 100% bracket, you are NOT paying all of that 12%.
And, consider that during your first few years working as a therapist, you may well have less take home pay than you do now…
Which also means that a therapist dining at one of your tables is subsidizing you while having less to spend…
I almost always leave a tip.
And it has historically been 20%
But after reading this blog, it is NOW 15% – if the service is Very good.
Thanks for educating me!
You can detest all you want in regards to misleading information, but this information is not misleading.
BY LAW I HAVE TO DECLARE 100% OF MY TAKE HOME MONEY. IF THIS IS LESS THEN 12% OF MY SALES I STILL HAVE TO SAY I MADE THE 12% OF MY SALES (WHEN I DON’T) WHICH RESULTS IN ME BEING TAXED ON INCOME THAT I NEVER HAD.
The money that I make at the end of the night could be more or less than 12% of my sales. What I was saying was if I make UNDER the 12% of my sales after my tip out, then no matter what I have to declare that 12%. If I make over, I declare that overage which results in declaring 100% of my take home money. This gets taxed. No matter what tax bracket I may fall into, it gets taxed just like you get taxed. So why should I get taxed on money I did not make BUT have to say I made, because people feel the need to not tip. Not misleading information. It is true. Now there are people who do not give a crap about the IRS coming after them and do not declare the 12%… tip what you want.
You say that I will take a pay cut for working as a therapist, do you not think I know this. MY FUTURE CAREER IS NOT THE SUBJECT OF THE CONVERSATION…TIPPING IS.
Obviously people came to this page to see what the tip guide should be for good and bad service. If you do not like the information presented to you or if you feel the need to punish your waitress by decreasing his/her tip because of this blog then by all means. You are entitled to do as you please. Don’t look to blog such as these if you do not want to hear the information presented.
Holy cow…this discussion seems to have gone very far afield, what with the parsing of a service employees likely hourly pay, their responsibility to others in the restaurant in regards to the tip out and what their tax burdens on such are. I’ve always seen tipping as something that polite people do in polite society to thank the person who is serving them their food and drinks while providing a pleasant atmosphere through being courteous and friendly. Going out to eat is a special occassion, and I enjoy thanking those who helped make it such. I don’t see it as an obligation I must suffer through at the end of the meal; I truly enjoy rewarding someone for their good work. I’ve also never experienced bad service, but that might have something to do with the fact that I treat my servers the way I would want to be treated and never lose sight of the fact that while they may be serving me, I’m no better than they are simply because they are serving me. We’re all just people making our way through life…what matters most at the end of the day is this: did I make this the best day I could, not just for myself, but for those I’ve had the opportunity to come in contact with? Begrudging someone a $5 or $10 tip just because I have a point to make about something other than the wonderful service I’ve received seems selfish and rather cruel to me.
The best tip I ever got was to get out of the bar business!
I’ve been a server for 8 years. I have coworkers that will be career servers and others that see the job as temporary or part-time for extra money. I work in CA where we are required to make $8 an hour. If folks or society decided tipping should be eliminated, at $8/hour I would definitely find another means for an income. My boss would have a hard time finding quality servers or the prices on the menu would go way up to pay the wages for a quality staff. My goal every night is to have 20% average for my tips. If something goes wrong (wrong order, slow kitchen, dissatisfied with food, etc. ), I try to fix the problem during service and I hope you appreciate my problem solving skills. If you didn’t enjoy yourself, I hope that you let me know and you should tip accordingly. On a busy night, I tip out the host, bartender, busser, food runner, and kitchen which the amounts are based on my total sales (not including tax). The whole staff of a restaurant working together makes for a smooth night and good service. There’s no need to tip on the total amount including tax (10% at my restaurant which includes a resort fee) but I appreciate it when you do;). By law, we are required to claim all income. However, tips left on credit cards are the easiest to track by the IRS. I don’t know who came up with 20%, but that’s what I rely on.
It’s hard to believe that a waiter or waitress, make only make alittle over 2 dollars an hour, while everything they do is standing on their feet. Lawmakers who pass these stupid labor laws, need to be kicked in the as-, and hard. What is the reasoning, that these people do not make at least minimum wage? I over heard my waitress at a restaurant tell a coworker, she was living in her car, because she couldn’t afford an apartment. Terrible!
I worked as a busboy, server, bartender through high school, college, graduate school and even in between periods of unemployment in the past 40 years. I have been a roadwarrior the past 20 years and eat out every day while traveling, 4 – 10 meals out in restaurants every week. I may be dining alone but my average tip is over 30% which usually equates to a check if 2 people were dining because I have taken a table and deprived the server the opportunity to serve more diners.
Folks are putting way too much thought into this. I waited tables during college, and I think this person needs to lower her expectations a bit. I certainly treat my server with the same amount of respect that I would treat anyone else, but I don’t go out of my way to make my meal center around brightening my server’s day. In general, I tip 20%, which is not difficult to calculate – use the 10% rule of moving the decimal point over one digit, and double it – no need to round to the nearest $10, which is a bit excessive, in my opinion. Cleaning up after myself? Please. Why don’t I just cook the food myself and refill my own beverages too?
I have a suggestion, hang your own coat up, wash your own silverware, glass and plates, spread your napkin out, get all set to enjoy your meal, then walk up to the Chef and request him to prepar your food, stand and wait on it, carry it back to your table, go get your drink, if you forget something just do without so you dont have to return to the kitchen, once your finished clean up after yourself and leave the table as you found it for the next person. Give your a 1% tip for helping yourself, and walk out happy. Better yet stay at home and fix your own damn meal and don’t bother those of us that care and take care of our servers, whom wait on us.
Hrly, don’t think anyone is saying not to pay a waiter or waitess. The question is what is adequate for tipping. And, for some people, there are questions about what is a fair tip for a server.
Again, some of us feel as if what the writer suggested, a 20% tip based on a bill that is rounded up to the next $10 increment is too much to tip. Like I said, I can remember when I waited and it was 10% for adequate service, and 15% for excellent service. Just seems like the expected tip is getting larger and larger. What’s next — are servers going to expect a 25% or 30% tip for adequate service?
I’m just saying that we need to be careful about what amounts to tip because the concept of tipping can get out of control, and well-meaning people may tip what is many times looked at as an adequate amount and then later labeled as cheap.
No one in this entire discussion mentioned the fact that waiters have to pay their own benefits (health insurance, sick leave, vacation pay, retirement), just like any other self-employed person. People who have complained about waiters making $25/hour with tips are forgetting that normal salaried jobs cost the employer far, far more than the employee ever sees on her paycheck. A salaried job that pays $50,000 is actually a $100,000 position on the company budget. The only benefit that a waiter gets is that someone else calculates and pays the taxes.
If I frequent a particular restaurant, it is to my benefit to tip well. I am remembered. I like that. And I like the fact that I can afford the meal and the tip.
If the service is terrible at a restaurant, that is a reflection of the management and I just never go back.
I appreciate the fact that someone else is doing the cooking and cleaning. I am a very good cook myself, but the whole process from start to finish takes hours. It is a lot of work. If I don’t want to do the work, I am happy to pay the restaurant staff to do it all.
Why the waiter is the one member of the staff who does not get fully paid out of the cost of the food is inexplicable. This is a bizarre system we have here. But we expect a certain level of entertainment along with our food, I guess, and the elegant, unflappable waiter doing her dance among the tables, coordinating the customers, the kitchen, the bar, and the busboys, keeping a million things in her head at a time, all while smiling pleasantly is a wonderful thing to watch.
When the service is good, I tip 20%. When it’s just adequate, I tip 15%. Bad service gets a couple of coins and a conversation with the manager about what was wrong.
If I or a member of my party spill something, we’ll gather napkins to help clean it up. I’m not throwing food around to make an additional mess. I do not expect to clean up my table and “to return the table to its condition prior to our arrival” at a restaurant where there is a waitstaff.
If a waitperson is overworked or making an effort and just having a bad day, but still offers me a smile, I may write a note of encouragement. The minute that waitperson’s “bad day” comes across in an attitude that makes me feel disrespected, I skip the note. Depending on where I am in the course of my meal, I have been known to ask for a different server or to just ask for the check. I care about that waitperson as a human being, but if I’m out it is not to develop a friendship with that person or to help get them over a tough patch.
In the end, I find that at least 95% of the time I eat out, the waitstaff makes a positive impact on the meal. I was recently out with family and had a waitress so amazing that we requested her for a party being held at the facility in a few weeks.
Very well said. Thank you.
Agreed! Very well said. I don’t understand where this group of vocal servers is coming from. They seem to want their butts kissed for doing a pretty average job. Are these people members of the trophy generation? ( you know the kids who got a trophy for just participating in sports )
OK, I’m all for tipping individuals a fair amount for good service. But, 20% of the bill rounded to the next $10 dollar increment? This is starting to get carried away.
Used to be a waiter myself — worked my way through graduate school doing this for a couple of years. I KNOW it’s a hard job, and sometimes a very thankless job. However, 15-18% of the actual bill is more than enough for good service. I’ve tipped more for exceptional service, but let’s not get carried away. 15-18% is more than adequate in most cases. I can remember when 10% was the usual tip for service, and 15% was given for exceptional service.
Victor:
“We should have mandatory restaurant service after high school and before college. then maybe the general public could understand what service poeple have to deal with on a daily basis.”
Why of course, that’s the solution. And since other vocations are often misunderstood too, what we really need is for everyone to have to be trained on everyone else’s job, so we all know what everyone else is dealing with on a daily basis. Why didn’t anyone think of that before?
Unfortunately it would take a lifetime or more to earn all the degrees and get all the training for all those jobs. Plus, who’s going to pay for all those college and postgraduate degrees? And who’s going to pay for all the training — probably not the employers, since they’re each going to lose you as soon as your training for that job is complete.
We should have mandatory resturant service after high school and before college. then maybe the general public could understand what service poeple have to deal with on a daily basis.
If you cannot afford to tip properly on any kind of food or drink service don’t eat out or order delivery or even take out. It is a service, that you connot do yourself, or are to lazy todo yourself.
I find this OP Ed. piece to be completely absurd. Seriously? I should clean up the table after my meal? I might as well just stay home. Also, why is it necessary to write the waiter/waitress a note of encouragement for poor service? Everyone has bad days, but you don’t bring your problems to work. I am a kindergarten teacher with a class of 27 kids. No matter my mood, I greet each student by name every morning, because that is my job. I have cleaned bruises, wiped noses, washed faces and once or twice cleaned up vomit. None of these things are in my job description. Nobody shows up to give me a tip and in fact, my only ‘tip’ is knowing that I helped one of my kids feel better. So, when you have the audacity to suggest that patrons clean tables and leave notes of encouragement, perhaps you need a different profession. May 6th is Teacher Appreciation Day. I was curious if there is a National Restaurant Server Day? I want to make sure I go out on that day, seat myself, eat, clean up the table, write an encouraging note and then leave the server a 20% tip. As a teacher, I do not get paid for all the extra hours of work that are non-contracted. Most days, I love my job, but some days, I wonder why am I still in this profession. I could go on about pay, testing, parents, low skills, etc., but I won’t. The fact is, I was hired to do a job. You will never find me on a website, berating parents for not doing my job. I am a teacher and you are a server. In the words of the song that the kids and I sing at the end of the day “Put Your Happy Face On” and do your job. Oh, don’t forget to buy your child’s teacher a present for May 6th. I would hope that as much as you have waxed on about your tips, you would return the favor and give a tip to your child’s teacher. I am being sarcastic. I do not expect to be given a gift because somebody declared it Teacher Appreciation Day. I am well compensated throughout the year by the parents who tell me thank you or the kids who bring me hearts and pictures to school. Do your job.
Sorry but you should stay home. If you don’t tip correctly, don’t go out. You are paying for a service. You obviously don’t get it.
as a seasoned patron, i couldn’t agree less with the tipping advise of the waitress guides.
– it is not the responsibility of the patron to negotiate better service nor is it their responsibility to reward bad service with a tip period.
– it is not the responsibility to reward poor service in order to make sure the server has a better day or to give them incentive to do better next time.
– clean up after yourself? are you serious? really? you are delusional.
– 15% service, before tax, is customary for good service. 20% for exceptional service.
–
I don’t ‘get’ tipping. Granted, I do it as it’s socially required, and at times even well earned, however here’s my beef. In California, they get minimum wage $8/hr. plus tips. In a busy restaurant, they can easily make another $20 or much more per hour on top of that. That’s a lot of money. Then you have the cleaning crew at an office or a file clerk or assembly line worker, or whatever low-rung employee of any company who works HARD all day for their $8.00 an hour and no tips, and achy muscles and sore backs to boot. How is that fair? How are food servers more in need of tips? How does an airport baggage handler get $1 or $2 per bag for moving them from the pavement to the conveyor belt? It makes zero sense to me. My brother is a cook and makes $10.50 with no tips and is sweating bullets over flames all dang day in CONSTANT turbo motion. How’s that right? I can’t help feel like if you sign on for a job, that’s your job, do it for the pay your employer pays you or find a different job. Tipping should be abolished. There are so many minimum wage jobs that don’t get tips that it just doesn’t seem fair to me. They work just as hard. I laughed out loud when I heard you should tip your Chiropractor too! She’s got a great house on the hill and I’m barely paying my bills…really? I’m a semi-retired accountant and make $35/hr but only 20 hrs a week, so most waitresses make more than I do! I know a bar waitress making over 100k. Can’t imagine my boss coming over at the end of the day and handing me tip money for a job well done! Hey, you got that stuff handled superquick today and saved the company $10k to boot! Here’s your $6.50 in tips. Yeah..that’s gonna happen. Makes no sense. I’ll do it, and I’m not a stingy tipper, but it does irk me unless I’ve somehow gotten above and beyond service, which is rare. Yeah, they pay for college with that…I got a student loan that took me 10 years to pay off…my accounting job in college didn’t pay enough to pay for college like waitressing does…no tips. Sigh.
I never tip based on percent, it makes no sense.
As said before, why should a waitress get more money from Person A who is served a $100 bottle of wine than Person B who is served a $20 bottle of wine?
That’s why when I order a $100 bottle of wine and a small dish I will only tip around $5-10. If I order a lot of cheap food though an the waiter has to come back and forth to me a lot I will tip more, perhaps more than 20%.
You tip incorrectly, if you can afford to drink a $100 you should tip the correct amount, based on the total of you bill. your not a jerk, your just wrong.
I generally tip 20% for good service. I will not tip for bad service. 31 years in the Army, begining when I was 19 in Vietnam, multiple Combat Tours and a Hardship Tour, and no one gave me a pass because I was having a bad day or there were staffing issues or the conditions sucked or my life wasn’t fair. Grow up!
I always leave an extra tip. No questions asked. I worked these jobs when I was pursuing my engineering degree years ago, and learned first hand just how tough that they are
For those who have taken the time to read through all the comments:
Did you count the very large number of different standards by which different people tip, and how much they tip?
Can anyone think of any other job type where your pay is based on so many different standards and amounts?
I have worked a sales and support job where my bonus varied wildly. As opposed to a straight commission rate different products had different rates, rates were affected by overall average daily sales for the period i.e product a was bonused at x% product b at y% product c at z% once you had your bonusable amount you then faced a tier system whereas if your overall daily average for the period was in the first tier you would get 80% of your bonusable amount or if you were in say the fourth tier you would get 125% scaling up to the top tier’s percentage cap. After that was figured there were additional bonuses for variable metrics that also had tiers, but if you missed certain metrics you could lose your bonus entirely
I tip to pay for the service. The price for the food on the menu is just that- the price of the food. So, I tip a standard 20% for regular service, and more for great service. Where I disagree with the writer is that I refuse to leave any tip if the service is dreadful. And by dreadful, I mean truly bad, not just below average. I don’t care about whether I am ‘sending a message’ to the server- if the service is that bad, I’m not coming back, so I don’t care what the server thinks.
This having been said, I do not leave small tips for bad food- that is not the server’s fault. I don’t leave a small tip if the establishment is understaffed but the server is trying to deliver service. I’ve not left a tip only a handful of times, and I don’t budge on the principle. If I order a drink and it never arrives, I don’t pay for the drink, do I? So if the service is non-existent, I don’t pay for that either.
” Go ahead and splurge for the 20%. You’ll make your server feel good, and you’ll get great service when you return to the restaurant.”
Many waiters/ex-waiters tend to say this, and I totally disagree. My tip is for the service I receive today, not for when next I return to the restaurant. It’s to reward the server for what they did today, not for what they’re going to do tomorrow.
15% is the accepted minimum for average service. 20% for exceptional service and 10% for bad service. If the service wasn’t exceptional, you’re not in anyway obligated to give more than 15%.
Totally agree. Tips are not for paying it forward
I normally tip 20% on the pre-tax cost of the meal and then round it up to the nearest dollar. I do that whether or not I’m in my home state which requires that everyone be paid minimum wage, we don’t have a server sub-minimum. To be honest, that simple policy is one of the better ideas I’ve heard of. Now that I’ve seen it in practice, I really wonder why it’s not universally done. The slight extra cost per meal is included in the food and beverage prices and you don’t really notice it.
But another option is one that I saw in practice in New Zealand – no tipping. None. They also didn’t charge taxes on top of the prices, they were built in. So if an entree cost $12, you paid $12. At first glance the prices seemed a little higher, but in the end the costs ended up being lower after not having 10% added for this and 20% for that. Oh, and there was also no shenanigans about income in cash magically not ending up on one’s income taxes.
Joshua:
That’s hilarious and you make some good points. Similar points could have been made for police officers and firefighters, and librarians, and probably many other underpaid yet important professions.
It’s interesting that such an article has generated so much discussion. Virtually no one agrees with the OP, especially the part about asking for a rag to clean up after your family. But somehow it has generated much interesting discussion.
By the way, federal law mandates that if a server does not earn enough in tips to match that state’s minimum wage, their employer is legally obligated to pay them the difference. Restaurants don’t share this information to patrons though, and who can blame them? They’re getting YOU to pay THEIR employees for them, so they don’t have to. =) Pretty smart….
Bottom line: whether you tip or not, servers will still earn minimum wage, not $2/hour.
It’s the law, but it never happens, even when servers are sent home during the slow season without getting a single table.
If you can come up with a single verified case of it actually happening, I’ll eat my shoe.
Who are you to be setting up these arbitrary rules for me to follow? That’s what I’d like to know. I could make up my own list of etiquette rules for you and then call you ill-mannered if you don’t follow them. That list would have just as much authority behind it as yours.
So here you go.
1. Next time you visit someone in the hospital, make sure you bring coffee for the nurse aide staff. These people run themselves ragged taking care of the people you love, and they deserve far more than the simple “thank you” or nod of the head we usually give. Coffee goes a long way to help brighten their day, and if you ever find yourself there, you’ll get great service. If you can’t afford to buy extra coffee treats, don’t go to the hospital.
2. Whenever you pick your kids up from school, try to find out which teachers did a good job of teaching them that day. Go to those teachers and make sure you give them a gift card to a restaurant. $20 is usually standard, but even if the teacher didn’t do a great job, a $10 gift card should still be offered. Teachers do not make enough money in this country for dealing with difficult children all day long. If you can’t afford gift cards, don’t send your kids to school.
The issue with waiters is that expectation of a tip regardless of level of service. It seems a majority of servers expect to be tipped 15 to 20% just for bring food to the table. What they don’t realize or refuse to understand is that tips are EARNED – not automatically given just because servers make $2 an hour, tips have to be split among other workers, etc.
I reward good service and generously too. I also have no problems leaving a small or no tip if service is horrendous.
Part of the fun of eating out is the experience. When servers contribute to the experience, they deserve and should receive a decent tip but in no way, should they expect to be tipped.
Customer is always right – even if they are wrong.
s:
Tipping is a bad system, but if you think service is bad when servers get 15 – 20%, just try servers who only expect to get a very small hourly wage. I’m not sure I’d feel safe eating at such a restaurant.
I also used to wait on tables and 15% is the standard (meaning a good tip), not 20%. If you provide EXCEPTIONAL service, then of course its higher than 15%, whether its 20% or even higher. I never had anyone tip me for having a bad day, nor assumed any sad story about working my way through college, etc. would get me a sympathy tip.
As for the comment above about the IRS fining you if you are tipped less, when i was a waiter the IRS only can fine you on money you’ve made. At the end of the night, you are supposed to claim that amount, not the percentage of sales you could have gotten in tips.
On a similar issue, I remember once the manager on a particular night critizing me for only claiming the monies i took home from tips (ie less than the actual amount of tips i received that night). The problem was that i only claimed my tips minus what percentage of tips I had to “tip share” with the hostersses, bartenders, and busboys (which i was at one point prior to being a waiter). I felt, and still feel that manager’s statement was wrong in so many ways and, if i was still a waiter would continue that practice of only claiming what i finally took home…
Steak&Ale:
“As for the comment above about the IRS fining you if you are tipped less, when i was a waiter the IRS only can fine you on money you’ve made. At the end of the night, you are supposed to claim that amount, not the percentage of sales you could have gotten in tips. On a similar issue, I remember once the manager on a particular night critizing me for only claiming the monies i took home from tips (ie less than the actual amount of tips i received that night). The problem was that i only claimed my tips minus what percentage of tips I had to “tip share” with the hostersses, bartenders, and busboys (which i was at one point prior to being a waiter). I felt, and still feel that manager’s statement was wrong in so many ways”
It sounds like you have never been audited by the IRS. I have. Here’s what happened:
(for clarity, I’ll refer to restaurant checks as “bills”, to avoid confusion with bank checks used to pay them)
— For each server at the restaurant, the IRS got all the bills and credit card receipts.
— They added up all the bill amounts (before tax if I recall correctly) that had tips on them.
— They added up all the tip amounts.
— They added up all the credit card bill amounts that did NOT have tips on them.
— They got the percentage of the tips on those that had tips.
— They applied that percentage to the credit card receipts that did NOT have tips on them, with the assumption that we had been tipped in cash for those.
— They applied that tip percentage for all other payment types such as cash and check.
— They added it all up to derive what they believed was our grand total tip amount. At that point, it was already high because credit card tips are higher than cash and check tips on average. Also, if anyone was stiffed on a credit card receipt, the IRS assumed the tip was in cash.
Then they looked at how much we had claimed, and fined us for the difference, plus a late fee. We all protested that we had tipped out 25 – 30%. The auditor asked each of us for daily records of how much we had tipped out and to whom. The only servers who had been keeping such records were those who had been audited before. The rest of us had to pay tax on those tipouts, plus a fine for not having paid them on time.
Some of the servers had been underclaiming for many years and the whole thing was a financial hardship for them. All the IRS had on me was that I had not claimed the tipouts and had also not kept daily records of the tipouts. So I had to pay the tax on the tipouts plus a fine for not having paid that tax on time. Also I had only been a waiter for a few years by the time of the audit, so the fine did not break my back.
My advice: don’t claim income that you have to tip out, but keep 100% meticulous daily records of your tipouts. For example, if on Tuesday there are 3 bussers, Fred, Sally, and George, and you tip $5 to the bussers, your entry for Tuesday should have $5 to bussers Fred, Sally, & George. Name them all. You don’t know how they divided your $5 among them, so you don’t have to put that; just that you tipped out $5 to bussers Fred, Sally, and George. And do the same for hosts, bartenders, and kitchen, and whoever else you tip out.
Yes, that’s a lot to write down every day. but worth it. Rather than spell out everyone’s name each time, you might want to use initials or work out some kind of code, but remember to keep track of who is who because by the time the IRS asks, it may have been years since you worked with some busser or whoever who was only there for a couple months. If you can’t tell them exactly who “T.J.” is, they might not allow it.
Then, when you get audited, you should be well equipped to not have to be taxed on those tipouts. I hope.
I was audited only in once in 6 years of service, in the late 1980s. It’s certainly possible that the IRS does it differently now.
I’m responding about the advice to talk with the waitress if service was poor. Our party of four received terrible service at a main street Anacortes, WA restaurant with barely any customers. The waitress ignored us for extended periods of time, was seen chatting for long periods of time with the chef and left us waiting for the bill for an extended period of time. A simple meal that took 30 minutes to eat took an hour and a half to order, receive and pay the bill in a relatively empty restaurant. We ended up going to the front counter to pay, which is not how the restaurant operates. Now, take note people in the Pacific Northwest are not confrontational and mostly passive-aggressive. It seems like a commentary note on why a tip is not being given is more appropriate. I felt bad about not leaving a tip but didn’t want to have to conduct a conversation about the poor level of service after handing the bill over. Likewise she ignored us when we handed in the bill just like she ignored us when nobody else was around…. What would the server do if you told her you’re not going to tip because of poor service? She’d probably get upset and/or argue back because she feels entitled to a tip. In this case, she wasn’t. (I normally tip double the listed 8 percent tax on the bill, so they get a 16 percent tip, with some rounding up.)
I worked as a server for years and I think it’s ridiculous to suggest the customer “ask for a dust pan or wet cloth.” That was MY job and I understood that. Even with huge kid messes, the parent helping me by piling up the dirty napkins and sippy cups with a little smile and an, “I’m really sorry about the mess…” was sufficient. For most of us the point of going out to eat is so you don’t HAVE to clean up the mess.
Servers:
Recommend you visit http://www.socialsecurity.gov/estimator/
You don’t have to create an account to obtain an estimate of your future social security payments.
This thread is hilarious. I didn’t read all of the comments, but I read the blog entry and am not surprised that so many people have objected to the tipping guide offered. It is a wish-list tipping guide for servers, not any true insider insight about tipping guidelines. The commentators provide some good insight though.
Hello All;
My Sister-in-law is a waitress: This is her strategy which I have modified for myself.
Buffets, Breakfast 10-15% Modified to 12% by myself: I disagree with the author that breakfast becasue its less expensive should be rewarded more. Breakfast is a simple meal.
Good Service: 18-20% Modified I consider the level of service and go 15-20%, Truely exceptional service I reward with 25%
Bad Service: Two Pennies face up on the bill/ or on the table: I have never done this but I have two penniesin my wallet in case this occurs.
It seems we have two real problems here. On the customers side, we have a feeling that we aren’t getting the service we deserve, when we feel we are coerced into leaving a 15 to 25% tip. On the server’s side, we have a entire industry that doesn’t have a workable pay model. This pay model is dis functional and firmly entrenched… it will not change until the congress changes the tax code to no longer allow sub minimum wage positions.
Suggestions
Patrons, try to leave a fair tip and be sure to effectively complain to the manager when things are screwed up! Don’t make the server the scape goat for the entire operation.
Servers, learn your trade and practice it well, ( Learning your trade is not learning the omnipresent manipulative up-sale!) Complain to your manager when things are messed up. You may even want to consider a walk out when the manager under-staffs the restaurant AGAIN! Put some heat on the manager to do his or her job. Most of all don’t expect a above 20 % tip to make up for all those that don’t tip. The servers that have a sense of entitlement to a big tip are as bad as the customers who constantly do not tip!
You’re kidding, right? “If you can’t afford to tip adequately, choose someplace less expensive”. How presumptuous! What I can’t afford is to spend money on gratuities to servers who have an entitlement attitude. I go into a purchased meal gladly willing to pay 25% for good service with increases for great service and decreases with less so. But, if a server feels entitled to a certain level of tip, their service usually shows it. It’s a vicious cycle. Instead of giving advice to customers and practically scolding them, this “former waitress and hostess” should be giving advice to her former colleagues (and maybe to herself) on how to truly be customer service oriented.
“The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) has established a minimum of 8 percent of a server’s sales as the reasonable amount servers receive as tips. All servers at a restaurant can be subject to tip allocation, or individual servers might have allocated tips. ” When I was a server, the minimum server’s sales was calculated on the tax of the meal as well. Nice of you to call me a “cracker head” while you remain anonymous behind a pseudonym. Read more: Federal Taxes on Waitress Tips | eHow.com http://www.ehow.com/list_6676391_federal-taxes-waitress-tips.html#ixzz2QU9QswbT
First, servers in this state make $3+ and change an hour, not $2.
Second, 15% is all they get if they do a reasonably good job. Servers usually run 2-10 tables at a time so their hourly rate is much more than mine when a reasonable tip is included.
Third, there is no way in hell I am leaving 15% if I eat at a buffet. If they take my order and bring my food that is one thing but at most buffets I eat at, they maybe refill a drink for you and they take away a dirty plate. 5% is all they are going to get. I am also not eating any place that requires a MANDATORY gratuity.
Lastly, I don’t care how bad of a day the server is having. You buck up and do your job. I am not going to give you a full tip if you moping around because your boyfriend/wife/pet canary left you. Nor do I care to hear all about your day. We all have days that suck and we all have our jobs to do.
ps. For the cracker head who claimed the IRS taxes and penalizes servers based on check amounts, no, they don’t. Servers report their tips at the end of the night and if they are doing such a crap job that they can’t make minimum wage for the week then the employer have to make up the difference to federal minimum wage. Of course if this happens too often the server is likely to get fired.
For those interested look at http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped2012.htm and note the column that lists combined cash and tips minimum wage.
kfunk:
“their hourly rate is much more than mine”
And of course that is the correct standard by which anyone should be paid at any job — the hourly rate that the CUSTOMER earns at HIS job.
“I am also not eating any place that requires a MANDATORY gratuity.”
Would you eat at a place that had 15% higher menu prices but no tipping?
“Lastly, I don’t care how bad of a day the server is having. You buck up and do your job.”
Of course, that’s expected, not only of servers but of everyone. But you miss the point. The point is that everyone makes mistakes, but most workers’ pay isn’t cut to the bone every time they make a small mistake.
“Servers report their tips at the end of the night and if they are doing such a crap job that they can’t make minimum wage for the week then the employer have to make up the difference to federal minimum wage.”
Sure it’s the law, but I don’t think it ever happens. In 6 years of waiting tables and managing restaurants, I never saw nor heard of it happening, even during slow times when servers would do chores for an hour and then get cut without ever having gotten a single table.
Do you know of a single instance when it ever happened? Thought not.
“For the cracker head who claimed the IRS taxes and penalizes servers based on check amounts, no, they don’t.”
Yes, they do. It happened to me. Also to other servers I knew. Cracker head.
I tip 20% most of the time, a bit more for breakfast. I resent tipping on the tax, which in NH is a hefty 9% but I do since I know the servers’ income tax calculation is based on people tipping on the tax. I do pick up after myself, however, I am not about to go as far as asking for a damp cloth/dust pan. I am really surprised the writer didn’t mention that if a diner has a coupon or discount card, the diner must tip on the full price of the meal, not the reduced price in order to be fair. I worked at a “family” style place in my early 2oies many years ago. Kids ate free on Wed, max of four kids. Parents would bring in neighbor kids it seemed to max out the discount, trash the place, order the cheapest adult meals, get the four free kid meal and leave a $2 tip. Ridiculous!
I live in Irvine, work 50 hours a week & am a waitres. I earn $18k base and about 70k-120k tip, depending on year. Last year was a good year (not excellent) though 2009 was my worst year.
I do have a college degree, but prefer the money and flexibility of waitressing. My bf is a waiter and earns about 10% less than me, but also worked 6 weeks less as he heads up to whistler, Canada from Jan1-Feb 10th for skiing every year, when its very slow.
Wow, $120k tips plus $18k wages is $138k. That is more than I would have thought it possible for a server to make, even at 50 hours per week. Maybe I made a mistake in leaving service for software programming!
Is that $120k before or after tipouts?
If it’s seriously possible for a server today to make $138k today in 50 hours per week, I think that’s all the more reason to reject all this nonsense about increasing the standard tip from 15% to 20%. There is no logically defensible reason for the increase.
— Former waiter and restaurant manager, 1980s & early 90s
Greg, you should come to New Orleans which has (arguably) some of the best restaurants in the US. Quite a few waiters can make >$100k and that is why many college students, after receiving their degrees choose to remain as waiters and waitresses here. The drawback is typically the long/odd hours, little or no benefits, and seasonal income swings. On the other hand, a very good server can write their own ticket regarding hours and even benefits since they tend to develop their own clientele and following.
I’ve learned a lot from many of the posts here. For example:
I’d never gone to a yacht dealership because yachts are far beyond my budget. But today I went to a yacht dealership and demanded that they sell me a nice yacht at a price I could afford.
When they learned how much I could afford asked me why they should sell a yacht for so little, I explained that the price of a yacht, for me, should be based on prices of products in my own industry, not standard yacht industry prices. That means I would pay a lot less for a yacht. When they disagreed, I pointed them to many of the posts here as a reference.
Greg,
You described a management concern, not a customer concern.
(The theoretical yacht dealer listened to your demand, then decided not to do business with you. A patient could discuss the doctor’s going rate and take his/her condition to another doctor. – That IS the way free enterprise Works … until insurance messes things up.)
If there is a minimum tip percentage and/or amount, that should be disclosed on the door of establishments. When enforced, it is likely that enough customers would be offended that you’d have plenty of time to polish silverware.
My Partner and I have almost always tipped 20 percent.
However, I will show her this blog, pointing out posts of some luminaries. (Yourself and mamasnothappy will be included.)
And suggest we alter our policy.
Because the constant whining is akin to the folks in the grocery store complaining their food stamp allotment doesn’t allow them to buy Both steak and lobster.
Servers, particularly those in higher end restaurants, post with a voracity similar to the automakers union. Remember how that turned out?
GM and Chrysler would Not have had to be forced into bankruptcy if the unions had negotiated with management reasonably. Since they wouldn’t,
GM STILL owes us, the taxpayers, Twenty Billion dollars. Or, a little less than one-fourth of the Sequester that put the two primary parties in such an uproar.
HEY – is there more than one “Greg”? Or are you playing – sometimes supporting Servers and other times supporting Customers?
SUGGESTION: Servers consider twenty percent tips as payment allowing customers to vent all of their day’s frustrations. Servers could then be proud they provided psychological service at a discounted rate. Wouldn’t that be more useful than plotting revenge?
Hawkeye:
“The theoretical yacht dealer listened to your demand, then decided not to do business with you.”
That’s a good point! A better analogy would be if it was legal for me to just take the yacht home, then refuse to pay any more for it than I could afford.
“HEY – is there more than one “Greg”? Or are you playing – sometimes supporting Servers and other times supporting Customers?”
Yes, one of the recent “Greg” posts was by someone else, apparently as a joke. It was the one advocating 45% tip.
None of my posts have supported 20% tip as standard. Since the early 1950’s, the standard tip has been 15%. I’ve asked here more than once what the justification is for increasing it to 20%, and I’ve not seen a logically defensible answer, though there is no shortage of completely illogical “answers”. In the early 1950s, there was a good, logical reason for increasing it from 10% to 15%.
When I was a waiter for 6 years in the 1980s and early 1990s, no one was bellyaching about making 20% the standard. Back then, 20% was above and beyond, for above and beyond service. More than 20% was just pure generosity on the part of the customer.
However, it doesn’t follow that it’s appropriate to stiff a server for a minor mistake, or for being insufficiently bubbly, or for a slow kitchen, or for an understaffed restaurant. There are few, if any, other kinds of workers who’s pay is cut so drastically for a minor mistake, or for not being the most bubbly personality you’ve ever met, or for a problem that isn’t even under the server’s control.
Come to think of it, since you mentioned unions: Before the days of unions, docking pay for minor mistakes was common, even for things that weren’t the worker’s fault. But even back then I don’t think the amount docked was as drastic as stiffing a server.
For service that is truly dreadful and rude, I think stiffing is okay. But don’t keep going to a dreadful restaurant.
If the restuarant is consistently dreadful for reasons that are outside the server’s control, servers know they will have to find a better restaurant to work at to get good tips. At such a restaurant, over time it may only be able to get and keep bad servers who can’t get jobs at better restaurants. As a customer, the appropriate response is to find a better-run restuarant to dine at; don’t support bad restaurant management.
I’m not sure where people are finding all these truly dreadful restaurants. The worst was at a grossly understaffed restaurant where I had to do all our own service after our order was taken, including picking up the dinners from the kitchen.
Also, once when I was a waiter at my first wait job, they did a kitchen remodel which drastically slowed down the kitchen for few days. But the stupid, greedy management didn’t reduce the number of customers seated. Customers waited way, way too long for their food, and they all were justifiably angry. But the wait staff did everything in our power to do everything we could for them, and we certainly weren’t rude. Tips were very low those few days, but what could the servers have done differently or better?
Finally — if a restaurant experence is dreadful for a reason outside the server’s control, such as a slow kitchen, do you refuse to pay the full menu prices, and instead insist on paying only a much lower amount? If not, WHY NOT??? If it’s okay to do that to servers for problems that are outside their control, why not do it to restaurant management, who DO have some control over that?
Hawkeye:
I forgot to add:
“Wouldn’t that be more useful than plotting revenge?”
When did I ever say anything about plotting revenge? I never plotted any kind of revenge as a waiter against my customers. Are you talking about the server who mentioned once spitting in a guest’s drink? I would never consider doing anything like that, even for the worst guest ever. That kind of behavior is never justified, and any server who does anything like that deserves to be fired. If a customer is being truly intolerable, the server should get help from the manager, who should ask the customer to leave. No spitting.
“SUGGESTION: Servers consider twenty percent tips as payment allowing customers to vent all of their day’s frustrations. Servers could then be proud they provided psychological service at a discounted rate.”
If some server and customer wanted to make such a strange agreement, that’s fine with me. But it isn’t appropriate for the customer to go in expecting that the tip is payment for a license to verbally abuse the staff.
Standard tip is 15%. See any standard etiquette book. The 15% tip is for good service with a smile, not a payment for being allowed to abuse the server.
Greg:
“(I’m not sure why so many of these posts don’t have the ‘Reply’ link. I’m putting my reply as close to your post as this blog software allowed me to.)”
I don’t understand why there’s not always a “reply” link, either.
Possibly because replies are intended to be TO the Original Poster,
not another reader/contributor.
“You seem to have misunderstood what I wrote. Obviously your first point of contact for complaining about a problem is the server. My point is that if a problem that is outside the server’s control is bad enough that you would withhold the server’s tip because of it, you should instead complain to the manager and expect to have the check reduced.”
Plenty of misunderstanding using this medium. Can’t see your face or get immediate feedback. Obvious is often NOT obvious…
My point may be unfathomable when considering restaurants like Maxwell’s Plum – where my sister Served.
No, my point is sometimes at lower level full service restaurants my order is taken, turned in to the kitchen, and then Servers huddle in a group talking about what they’re doing after work. I.E., my point is the Server Should CHECK with the kitchen on orders, not just wait until an indication is given the order is ready for pick up.
BTW, my sister originally objected to any percentage of tips. She said “They are already getting paid” when in her teens. Note there is a similarity to arguments Servers make to others when saying You know what you agreed to when you took the job …
Then she served.
And when we got the absolute worst service imaginable (slow, wrong food delivered, unresponsive when signaled for beverage refill, etc.) and I arose to pay the bill leaving Nothing on the table, she insisted the Server deserved a gratuity.
“Individual dishes can be “railed” on occasion…”
Thanks. I just learned a new word.
“If the food is taking a long time, the server can try to get an approximate ETA from the kitchen and convey that information to the customers with apologies.”
EXACTLY what I was talking about – if that was not done.
ME: And if Waiting is bad because of low tips and complaining customers, there are jobs available at truck stops. Those jobs will pay at least the minimum wage with much less of the stress caused by demanding customers.
“I see. So you took the truck stop job instead of the wait job because it was more desirable to you overall, even after considering the tips at the wait job and the lack of tips at the truck stop job. Yet you moan and groan about servers getting tips while you did not.”
I took the truck stop job because there were almost NO jobs serving that were staffed by men. Plus, it would NOT have been considered “manly” whereas truck stop was. (Yes, was a Long time ago.)
I object to “moaning and groaning” on my part. Servers post here moaning and groaning to justify higher tipping. I am providing a point of perspective. And, having previously lived in St Louis, New Orleans, and Hawaii (data processing jobs) – I am WELL AWARE of cost of living differences. And my point then is tipping whatever percentage in a city or tourist destination can cost Customers a lot more – regardless of the Customers salary or home location.
You support a tipping percentage of 15% – sounds reasonable to me.
Some of my responses addressed to you include points of view directed to other posters. – My Bad!
I said: SUGGESTION: Servers consider twenty percent tips as payment allowing customers to vent all of their day’s frustrations. Servers could then be proud they provided psychological service at a discounted rate.
You understood that to mean tolerance for Server abuse.
Not what I intended.
Message meant to convey that Servers acknowledge 20% being a generous gratuity for service provided. And understand that a reasonable amount of tolerance regarding Customers talking about their day is warranted. Not to be confused with abuse.
EVERYONE PLEASE READ THE FOLLOWING *******************
Tipping was likely originally something wealthy, upper class individuals did to demonstrate their position in society.
http://www.foodwoolf.com/2010/08/history-of-tipping.html
Early Americans objected to the practice, deeming it to be servile and undesirable in the New Country
Also, keeping mind that wikipedia is unverified information, following provides tip information world wide:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tip_(gratuity)
Included is list of states that require hourly minimum wage to Servers.
I disagree with her. If service is completely inadequate then they do not deserve a decent tip. As a physician and now consultant if I perform badly I have to take ownership for my actions. Finally I am not going to pay a tip where you take a number and they just bring your food out to you especially if I bring my own water utensils and have to clear the table. Also to put things in perspective my first job as a scientist paid 24k a year with a BS in molecular Biology graduating from a prestigious university in the top 5% of my class working 60-80hrs a weeks. As a medical resident I worked 80-100hrs a week only earning 35-40K a year with 200K in medical loans so we all have it tough. Finally in SF some restaurants are very cheap. They do not pay health insurance so we get added on an extra 3% to pay health insurance of employees. I think its time restaurant owners pay their staff properly.
chris:
“As a physician and now consultant if I perform badly I have to take ownership for my actions.”
If your bedside manner is not good, does the patient pay only a small fraction of your fee?
“Also to put things in perspective my first job as a scientist paid 24k a year with a BS in molecular Biology graduating from a prestigious university in the top 5% of my class working 60-80hrs a weeks. As a medical resident I worked 80-100hrs a week only earning 35-40K a year”
All of that is very relevant because of course every restaurant customer should pay according to the standards of their own vocation, not the standards of the restaurant industry.
wow greg you are in idiot I am just comparing what a waiter does to my job and how I once was in school too and had to work my way up but no one gave me hand outs. We live in a capitalistic country NOT socialist or communist country so why should waiters get a free handout. I never got one nor asked for one. Finally bedside manner is important but does not mean you never received the standard of care. Finally I wrote my comments on a review I wrote on yelp recently where the server messed up three orders, a good 40 minutes passed from the first entree received to the last in our party( we saw our sushi sitting out for 15 minutes before the server brought it to our table), the meat was raw and undercooked in a terriyaki dish, one entree was never placed in the system, the server was nowhere to be seen so we could not complain and this is a little of what happened. We still tipped but I wished I never did. Finally no one apologized or even cared at the restaurant so why should I have tipped.
Chris, you are the idiot. Tips are not “free handouts”; they are how servers are paid most of their payment for the work they do for you. If you don’t like tipping 15% for good service, then don’t go to tipping restaurants.
If no one tipped, and servers only made minimum wage or less, hardly anyone would be willing to do such a stressful, unrewarding job for so little pay. There would not be enough servers, and they would all be truly dreadful. Alternatively, menu prices would go up to pay a higher wage for better servers.
As I’ve said elsewhere, tipping is a bad system that should be phased out. But you and I don’t have the power to make that happen.
“the server messed up three orders, a good 40 minutes passed from the first entree received to the last in our party( we saw our sushi sitting out for 15 minutes before the server brought it to our table), the meat was raw and undercooked in a terriyaki dish, one entree was never placed in the system, the server was nowhere to be seen so we could not complain and this is a little of what happened.”
Sounds like a truly dreadful restaurant. So don’t go back, okay?
Some of what you describe sounds like the server’s fault, some is clearly outside the server’s control, and some I can’t tell without knowing more. According to standard etiquette books, the appropriate tip would have been 10%, reduced from 15% due to the server’s share in the bad experience. But more importantly, don’t support bad restaurant management by going back to that restaurant.
Also — a bad yelp review for a bad restaurant experience is a good idea. But did you check the yelp reviews for that restaurant before going? Are they mostly bad? If so, why did you go? If they are not mostly bad, why do you suppose that is?
Chris:
I forgot to add:
For that parts of that truly dreadful restaurant experience that were not the server’s fault, did you demand a discount on the check? If not, why not? Why do you reduce the server’s pay for a kitchen mistake, but not try to reduce the restaurant’s pay for that kitchen mistake?
Wow again why are you saying that I do not want to tip for GOOD service. I tipped for bad service so why would I not tip for good service. I believe when a restaurant messes up as bad as I experienced at the very least they should comp the check or offer to make it right. After my yelp review I did receive a call from the manager and she did promise good special attentive service if I brought all seven people back and let her know personally I was coming back. Sounds like they just wanted to make more money off of us. Also why should I have to notify her to receive good service?
Finally I have friends who are servers and they earn six figure salaries working 5 days a week. I am not saying they should NOT earn this nor am I saying every server earns this but, I am saying they are not hurting either and they should not expect a tip for gross incompetency. If I mess up in my profession I get sued period so why should they receive even 10% or get a free pass because they are a waiter. I believe in rewarding good or even satisfactory work but only in America do we believe in awarding incompetent work. Maybe that is why there is no more incentive for people to do a good job and we have to look overseas for adequate work to be done. For example, building the Bay Bridge we had to look at China because they now make better bridges than the US.
Also it was the server’s fault. They never put in two orders correctly and forgot to put in 1 order completely. They let food sit for 15 minutes before bringing it out and this was after a friend got up was going grab our food from the sushi bar. They never checked up on us on how our food was or to fill water glasses. They forgot to bring the check over and they never apologized for the food, raw chicken, or their mistakes and never bothered to thank us for coming. Finally while leaving they asked us to take the paid check with the signed credit card to the cashier essentially doing their job. I mean really??????
Chris:
“I have friends who are servers and they earn six figure salaries”
That’s an awful lot for a restaurant server. Are you sure they aren’t exaggerating? Do their cars and houses reflect that kind of income?
When I was doing it in the 1980s and early 90s, 25 – 30k was pretty good at a nice fine dining restaurant; at the very finest restaurants somewhat more. Obviously it would be more now due to inflation, but not 100K+. For those servers posting here, how many of you are making more than $100,000 per year?
“they should not expect a tip for gross incompetency.”
If it’s truly “gross incompetency” in the server, and not gross incompetency in the kitchen or restaurant management, feel free to stiff the waiter. Okay?
“why should they receive even 10%”
Well, I didn’t write the etiquette books. But I do know this: most people, in most jobs, sometimes make mistakes. But their pay — again, most people in most jobs — is not cut to the bone just because they made a mistake.
If the service is truly abominable, don’t tip. But if the service is functional but just not “good”, 10% is appropriate.
I don’t know how some of you guys are getting such worse service than I’ve ever seen. Maybe you should rethink how you choose what restaurant to dine at.
“Also it was the server’s fault.”
You said “the meat was raw and undercooked in a terriyaki dish”. Depending on how the dish is presented, the sauce, etc., that might have been obvious at first glance or it might have not been obvious until cutting into it or even until trying it.
If a server can see that something is not right about a dish, certainly they should ask the cook to correct it, bring out the other dishes if the correction will take some time, and apologize to the customers and explain, and bring out the fixed dish as soon as possible. And in case a problem is not visible until cutting into it and trying it, the server should check back in a few minutes.
That’s about all a server can do about a badly prepared dish. Remember the server didn’t cook it, and wasn’t watching over the cook’s shoulder as it was cooked. If you have a major problem with how the food was prepared, you should ask to see the manager and complain about the food, rather than punish the server for the restaurant’s kitchen problems.
But again, it sounds like you ALSO got bad service from the server. You advocate not tipping the server for bad service, but you don’t complain to the restaurant manager about the bad food, in the expectation that the check will be reduced. Why not?
“Finally while leaving they asked us to take the paid check with the signed credit card to the cashier essentially doing their job. I mean really??????”
It sounds like you were at a really low-end restaurant, on the order of a Denny’s or IHOP. In many of those, it’s standard to take the check to the front to pay. I haven’t heard of paying at the table then taking the signed credit card statement to the front; normally where the server handles the payment they turn all that in to the manager at end of shift. Not sure what was going on there. But if other guests with other servers were doing it, it would have been a restaurant policy, not server error. If the server was asking you to do extra work, a complaint to the manager would be appropriate.
“I read a lot of yelp reviews from waiters who refuse to tip for bad service.”
For the ones who are really waiters and not just saying so, they mean truly bad SERVICE, not just occasional mistakes, or a slow kitchen, or an understaffed restaurant, or not being the most bubbly personality you’ve ever met, or being slammed on a busy weekend evening, etc. etc.
Even so, just because some random waiter says something doesn’t make it right. The standard etiquette books are a higher authority than some random waiter. And if you don’t believe in concerning yourself with what the standard etiquette books say, you shouldn’t be concerned with what that random waiter says, either.
I feel like you are picking at my comments to try to find any excuse to support the waiter selectively quoting my comments and not getting at the bigger picture. If they bothered to come back after serving my friends they would have found out the chicken was raw. Also the manager who called to apologize after the yelp review said we did not need to tip at all for the service. Finally it was a 3 star sushi restaurant meaning avg price 30-40 a person.
Chris:
“it was a 3 star sushi restaurant meaning avg price 30-40 a person.”
Service — and food — as bad as that at $30 – 40 per person is atrocious. You should have complained to a manager then, before paying, with the expectation that the check would be reduced. And given all you described about the service, it sounds like leaving no tip would have been appropriate.
Do you often get such atrocious service and food at restaurants as expensive as that? If so, you might want to reconsider how you are choosing what restaurants to go to.
Greg, I don’t mean to but in to your conversation (Yes I do), but your suggestion (request? command?) about not going to tipping restaurants if you do not wish to pay a tip is not a requirement and something we can all choose to ignore. If a customer decides to leave no tip then he/she is in violation of no law unless the tip is pre-calculated and disclosed ahead of time. I understand that it is how servers get paid (partially), but the system is set up so that it is at the discretion of the customer and no amount of arguing or discourse will change that unless the system is modified to include tips as a surcharge rather than an option. This is often done for groups of 8 or more and I understand why, but sometimes when I am with a group, I am informed by my server that he/she did not add the 18% as previously notified because they did not agree with a mandatory tip. This was good thinking on their part because I usually tip more especially with a large group – sometimes 30-50%. If the tip has already been calculated and determined for me at 18% then I see no reason to go against that. Nonetheless, a tip is not mandatory, but it is customary and courteous when the service is acceptable or better. Do I have the right to forego payment at the auto mechanic if the service is bad? No, but that is how their system is set up and I can choose not to go there again. But if my wait staff is rude or discourteous then I will show my displeasure in the form of a reduced tip. One thing to note: I typically do not reduce a tip because of bad food, late food, or unpleasant atmosphere unless I feel that my wait staff is directly responsible. In those cases, I will simply not come back much like the auto mechanic. But if I feel that it is the fault of the wait staff, then I will reduce the tip proportionately and then seek another server or hope that the first server is having a better day when I come back.
edward:
“Greg, I don’t mean to but in to your conversation (Yes I do)”
Sorry, I don’t understand that your meaning. Is there a typo in there somewhere?
“If a customer decides to leave no tip then he/she is in violation of no law unless the tip is pre-calculated and disclosed ahead of time.”
You are certainly correct that tipping is not a legal requirement; no argument there.
I’ve never advocated leaving a good tip for bad service. But leaving little or no tip for service that is good but not perfect — say a 9 or 8 out of 10 — is like belching and farting loudly in the restaurant. It shows that you are a boor. Everyone, in every job, has days when their work performance is only 9/10 or even 8/10 instead of 10/10, but most of those workers don’t get their pay docked to the bone on those days.
Of course most restaurant customers do tip for 9/10 or 8/10 service, but some don’t. In many cases, it’s due to unreasonable expectations; they seem to expect that the server and the cooks are all dedicated to their table, with no other customers to work for, and expect everything to be as prompt as if they were.
There are a lot of societal expectations that are not legal requirements. Restraining yourself from belching and farting loudly in restaurants is one of them. Tipping 15% for reasonably good service by a server who has a reasonably positive attitude is another.
If you belch and fart loudly in a restaurant, or leave no tip because the service was only reasonably good and not quite perfect, you won’t go to jail, but it shows that you are a boor. If you do it often, you might find that others don’t want to join you for trips out to restaurants, because they are embarrassed to be with you.
Once upon a time in the distant past tipping was truly optional. Like many things, the practice changed while the name stayed the same, and now the name is no longer a good fit for the practice.
If tipping for reasonably good service were really truly optional in terms of societal expectations, servers would make much less and far fewer people would want to be servers. Restaurants would have a much harder time getting and keeping servers, and the quality of service would plummet. The reason that doesn’t happen is because most people consider a 15% tip for reasonably good service to be a societal expectation, and tip accordingly.
As I’ve said before here, tipping is a bad system in general and should be phased out. People should be paid the market rate for their work. Customers of a business shouldn’t be put in the awkward position of deciding whether and how much a worker employed by that business should be paid.
Yes, there was a typo. “But” should have been “butt” and it was my bad attempt at being facetious. You got my first point but not the rest of it. I probably did not explain myself well because after reading your response, I think that we may be agreeing. I am simply saying that a tip is purely optional. Is it societal norm? Yes. Is it expected? Yes, but I do not think that 15% or more should be expected under all conditions. I believe that a tip should be solely at the discretion of the customer (it is, and rightly so), and if the service warrants only a fraction of the 15% norm then so be it. If it warrants a decrease to zero then so be it. I have had service where I thought the server owed ME money and in both cases the manager agreed because they attempted to comp my meal. That is not something that I feel comfortable taking advantage of unless the unpleasantness is clearly the fault of the establishment rather than the server. In that case where it was not the server’s fault, I usually tipped above and beyond so that the server knew that my displeasure was not directed at them personally.
chris:
“bedside manner is important but does not mean you never received the standard of care.”
I see. So if you perform a perfect operation, but your bedside manner is not good, you expect to be paid in full, and of course you are paid in full.
What about restaurant service which is technically perfect but the server is, say, not especially personable? Why is that grounds for not tipping? The “standard of care”, to use your words, was was provided, unless you’re at a restaurant which, say, advertises that its waiters are stand-up comics.
#1 Don’t tell me how to spend my money…I’ll tip as much, or as little as I like!
#2 You chose this line of work!
#3 Who in their right mind would leave any kind of tip for bad service…and I shouldn’t have to tell you how to do your job!
Freaking waiters, servers, or whatever you like to call yourselves.
You are the epitome of the customer I deal with countless times each day. Incredibly egoistic, entitlist mentality; so much so that no matter what kind of “service” is given it’s never good enough.
1. Yes, you will tip as little as you like. You will also omit unnecessary, stupid words such as “please” and “thank you” from your vocabulary; ignore people who say hello to you or wish you a good day; and glare at anyone who smiles at you.
2. Yes, some of them did choose their line of work, for whatever they might like about it—obviously, this revokes their freedom to EVER complain, and gives you the right to be as rude as you wish. Others don’t “choose,” many need a job and it is all that’s available. Many need it to put themselves through school for a very different type of job; but without a degree, or special skills or qualifications, this kind of employment is their only option.
3. The point of saying leave $1 rather than no tip: with nothing, they might think you forgot, while one buck says clearly that they did a bad job. No one said you should tell them how to do their job…actually, if you want the truth, none of your “input” is good, when you have no idea what you’re talking about.
And yeah, the position has a title that differs depending on the place of employment. But how is that relevant? Also, please learn how to use question mark punctuation when needed.
Look, if you’re good at your job then no problem, but why put others down? (Please not the question mark)
There are an endless number of servers out there and owners should just keep firing them until they have a staff that is consistently making good tips. This means happy customers which is good for business. People who are bad at their jobs should look for other work.
I’m not tipping for bad service period. Good service is expected and, no I do not look for faults just to be cheap but if you are bad at your job I will not tip and you should be irked to make room for someone who wants the job more than you do.
“People who are bad at their jobs should look for other work.”
You don’t get it, do you? For some people, this is all the work available. Maybe they don’t have the skill set it takes, but they need a job. It’s not really a matter of being “bad.” You can try your best, but even then sometimes you’re just not cut out for certain types of work.
Maybe it’s how you define “good” and “bad.” Your waiter might give you bad service only by taking too long, but what if it’s out of their control because the restaurant is crowded and short-staffed? Do they still deserve to go tipless?
Also, I don’t claim to have perfect grammar, but I don’t see why it’s too much to ask to have question marks at the ends of questions. That’s just pretty basic.
Heidi,
It is NOT customers fault that “… this is all the work available.”
But your post illustrates why many object to twenty percent.
Why go to college, incurring huge debt, when many Servers receive higher compensation with no higher education & debt?
Just because education and experience allows someone to be well paid for work in their chosen field, does that mean someone doing unpleasant work should also be well paid? If so, then shouldn’t the people who rent and service portable toilets be millionaires?
You said “Your waiter might give you bad service only by taking too long, but what if it’s out of their control because the restaurant is crowded and short-staffed? Do they still deserve to go tipless?”
What are the customer’s options? They can go elsewhere in the future, but that only means Servers looking for other jobs when the restaurant closes. In sporting terms, the success of a football team is the result of a team effort – eleven players on the field. Yet the quarterback gets most of the credit and most of the blame for successes / failures.
Servers are the quarterbacks of the restaurant industry.
They have the most influence on timing and food quality.
Therefore, they get the credit or lack of credit for the results.
I’ve never worked in a restaurant.
But I did work in a truck stop and only once was offered a tip.
That happened when I added air to a customer’s tires in the rain.
No other tip – not even when fueling vehicles, checking oil, etc. during winters in Iowa when the temperature can reach 20 below zero.
For $1.65 per hour.
My Mother always said “Good manners are never out of style.”
That should apply to Customers and Servers alike.
No I get it, really I do but the OP is blaming people for not tipping because the are inherently cheap and not because the OP might not be good at his/her job.
I’m not tipping someone who is not dong the job well, period! If you are not making ends meet and this is the only job you can find then you are in for a long rough life. I take care of my extended family and I don’t have the time or money to take care of someone else.
While i am up on my soap box..
The idea of “if you can’t afford the tip don’t go out” is insane. If I don’t want to tip for whatever reason that is my choice. If someone received the best service ever and chose not to tip then that is okay by me. If it was mandatory then it would be on the bill.
Hawkeye:
“Servers are the quarterbacks of the restaurant industry.
They have the most influence on timing and food quality.
Therefore, they get the credit or lack of credit for the results.”
What on earth makes you think servers have “the most influence” over food quality?? That’s insane. Servers have very little control over food quality. Cooks have the most control, and management has a lot of control too in terms of the quality of the ingredients purchased and the resources provided to the cooks.
Regarding timing, servers certainly have some control, but they have no control over a slow kitchen. And on busy days, the kitchen often gets slow.
“In sporting terms, the success of a football team is the result of a team effort – eleven players on the field. Yet the quarterback gets most of the credit and most of the blame for successes / failures.”
Is most of the quarterback’s pay docked when the team loses a game, or even when the other team just scores more points than expected?
“But I did work in a truck stop and only once was offered a tip.
That happened when I added air to a customer’s tires in the rain.
No other tip – not even when fueling vehicles, checking oil, etc. during winters in Iowa when the temperature can reach 20 below zero.
For $1.65 per hour.”
Wow, you must be very old! How much was $1.65 way back then in today’s dollars? I remember federal minimum wage being $3-something when I entered the workforce as a teen.
More to the point, comparing your experience working at a truck stop to waiting tables is an apples and oranges comparison. If you felt that waiting tables was more money for less work, why did you take the truck stop job? Instead you should have been a waiter.
The world is full of inequities in how much various jobs are paid. Just ask any police officer or teacher, and compare to a pro football player or movie star. Do you go around demanding that movie stars get paid less? Why not?
When you go to a restaurant, the societal expectation is that you are prepared to tip 15% for good service. If you don’t, the server still has to tip out, and pay federal taxes on the phantom tip (if you pay by credit card or check but don’t include a tip on it, the IRS assumes you tipped in cash). Net result for a server making below minimum wage is that the server pays to serve you, instead of getting paid for their work.
If their work is not up to par, follow the guidance of the standard etiquette books and tip 10%.
For truly dreadful and rude service, which is very rare in my experience as a customer, go ahead and stiff the server. But please make sure you are not mistaking a slow kitchen and busy night with a heavy server’s workload of several tables, with truly dreadful and rude service. That seems to be a very common mistake.
Tipping is a bad system in general and should be phased out, as I’ve said elsewhere here. But if you choose to go to a tipping restaurant, then you should go in expecting to pay 15% for good service.
Haha, I’ve never gotten a tip. But it’s not standard for my job, and while it would be nice, there’s no reason for anyone to tip me regardless of what lengths I go to for them. Even if someone did try to give me a tip, I wouldn’t be allowed to accept it.
I don’t think I ever said or implied that lack of better opportunities is the customers’ fault. Not all of us are cut out to be in the service industry, and that’s why we go to school, so we can choose our line of work. But most people need a temporary job outside their chosen field at one time or another. Personally, I wouldn’t stay in the service industry forever even if it were to be much better pay than what I put myself in debt for in college. Some people would, and do, even though it doesn’t always pay well. Maybe some are in it because they actually like the work.
I’ve never worked in a restaurant either, and I’d be happy to keep it that way, but that probably won’t be an option for me.
‘They can go elsewhere in the future, but that only means Servers looking for other jobs when the restaurant closes.” Restaurants run poorly shouldn’t be in business, but it doesn’t usually work that way. If it were to close, though, and make room for better restaurants to employ the servers; I think that’s a good thing.
I’m all too well aware that the primary person to provide service is the one to be blamed. In retail, people blame me for policies that I cannot control. Maybe servers do have more control sometimes, though I doubt over food quality. But often they don’t. Again, it comes down to what is considered good, and what’s considered bad. Personally, if I saw a server trying hard I’d consider that good service. Naturally they would try their best because they’re aware of the connection between service and tips. Service from the waiter and the restaurant are often two separate things.
And Surly: sometimes the tip is on the bill.
Greg,
“What on earth makes you think servers have “the most influence” over food quality?? That’s insane. Servers have very little control over food quality. Cooks have the most control, and management has a lot of control too in terms of the quality of the ingredients purchased and the resources provided to the cooks.”
Huh? When you have a problem with Windows, do you take it up with Bill Gates, or his successor?
Customers rarely are allowed to talk directly with cooks.
Management is unlikely to discuss source of ingredients or the discount restaurants receive.
No, the intermediary is the Server.
If the order is taking to long, the Server needs to see if it can be sped up.
The Server sees the same dishes over and over. If it is obviously prepared incorrectly the following should happen:
1. Inform the Customer that a kitchen problem occurred and it will be corrected as soon as possible.
2. Take the offending dish back to the kitchen and inform the cook it is unfit to be served.
This HAS been done. A Server did exactly that for me.
And when done tactfully, it does not come across as bitching at the cook.
“Wow, you must be very old! How much was $1.65 way back then in today’s dollars? I remember federal minimum wage being $3-something when I entered the workforce as a teen.
More to the point, comparing your experience working at a truck stop to waiting tables is an apples and oranges comparison. If you felt that waiting tables was more money for less work, why did you take the truck stop job? Instead you should have been a waiter.”
When I was earning $1.65 per hour, the standard hourly wage for waiting was $1.00 per hour plus tips. And if Waiting is bad because of low tips and complaining customers, there are jobs available at truck stops. Those jobs will pay at least the minimum wage with much less of the stress caused by demanding customers.
While this blog was triggered by an unrealistic Tipping Guide, it has turned into a vent session. You and I aren’t that far apart. But it has the appearance of Servers versus the world.
One thing hasn’t been mentioned much.
I read today about a hard-working immigrant who worked his way through college. He worked as a janitor for $22 per hour.
That’s more than twice what I earn and his employer knew all along he would not be a long term employee.
But he worked in New York City and I work in rural Pennsylvania.
My pay is acceptable and I do tip when we go out to eat once or twice a week. Our menu prices are likely half or less compared to New York’s prices.
When we’re talking about acceptable, there are going to be additional considerations.
And human nature. America is evolving to diminished personal responsibility and acceptance of greed. Prices are determined more by what the traffic will bear than what is customary and reasonable.
I’ve put numerous posts here because I do not like these changes.
“You are the epitome of the customer I deal with countless times each day. Incredibly egoistic, entitlist mentality; so much so that no matter what kind of “service” is given it’s never good enough.”
Countless times every day, really? If you’re not exaggerating, as a former waiter I think you’ve picked a really awful restaurant to work at. Awful restaurants attract awful customers, like rats to rotting roadkill. I’d suggest looking around.
Also FWIW — I found during my 6 years as a waiter that it often helped to treat rude customers as if they weren’t being rude at all; just ignore their rudeness and pretend they’re being civil. Make a sort of game out of it — no matter how rude they are, pretend they said or did something perfectly civil instead.
In some cases, they’re being rude because your reaction is fun for them. If you act as if they aren’t being rude, it’s no fun for them and some of them give it up. In other cases, they’re still rude but you can tell it isn’t as fun for them as they’d like.
In some case, they turn around and magically start being polite.
Even when it didn’t improve their behavior, I found that this approach helped me keep my mind off of their rudeness and get on with my work.
Also BTW:
Strangely, some people are rude without meaning to be. My wife, who never had a service job, had a very bad habit of being very rude to service staff. She insisted she wasn’t, and that it was just my imagination. I don’t know what was going on in her head, but she was sure there was nothing rude about her behavior, while I could see the service person was quite tacken aback, even shocked at her totally unprovoked rude behavior. I was routinely embarrassed and tried to be extra polite to the service person myself, when it was my turn to order etc.
Tiime after time, I discussed it with her once we were away from others. She hated, hated, hated, those discussions, and vehemenently disagreed. But eventually she started treating service staff better. Today she’s fine; I can’t remember the last time I was embarrassed by her behavior toward service staff.
I don’t know how many other rude people are like that, but I doubt she’s the only one. I still don’t know what was going on in her head.
Come to think of it, I remember one other person like that. In college, an accounting professor (Hi, Dr. Hope!), who would occasionally take groups of students to breakfast. A very nice guy, except to wait staff. To wait staff, his over-the-top rudeness was shocking and embarrassing. I never joined in one those breakfasts myself; just heard the stories from other students.
On reflection, I think there are a fair number of people like that — otherwise nice people who are inexplicably rude to restaurant wait staff. I suspect that for some of them there is an assumption that any time spent away from their table is time spent goofing off.
Yeah, countless times each shift, except maybe on a very slow day. Except I’m not a waitress; I’m in retail. Maybe I shouldn’t say anything about serving in a restaurant, but chances are I’ll have to sooner or later in the next few years unless I’m lucky enough to get a job somewhere neither retail nor restaurant. It’s possible, sure, that restaurant customers are better than those in a department store. But judging by the comments here and the opinions and stories of some of my friends who are servers, it doesn’t seem likely.
It’s hard for me to determine why the majority of people are so rude, I stopped letting myself react a while ago so it’s probably not that. It seems that they simply think that’s an acceptable way to treat someone in a service job.
But then, I’ll admit much of it must be due to the fact that the store is poorly run. Inexplicably, the customers have an unshakable belief that the sales associates have influence on the store policies. They also think every person to ring them up is personally vindictive against them.
Of course, many people, they have a bad day and they take it out on service workers. But it can’t be that everyone has a bad day, everyday.
I wish I were exaggerating. There are people who are civil and even nice, but they’re the minority. It could be if I ever find another job it’ll be different, but I’m not even in college yet (high school senior) so there are several more years before anything else is even an option.
Hawkeye:
(I’m not sure why so many of these posts don’t have the ‘Reply’ link. I’m putting my reply as close to your post as this blog software allowed me to.)
“When you have a problem with Windows, do you take it up with Bill Gates, or his successor? Customers rarely are allowed to talk directly with cooks. Management is unlikely to discuss source of ingredients or the discount restaurants receive. No, the intermediary is the Server.”
You seem to have misunderstood what I wrote. Obviously your first point of contact for complaining about a problem is the server. My point is that if a problem that is outside the server’s control is bad enough that you would withhold the server’s tip because of it, you should instead complain to the manager and expect to have the check reduced.
“If the order is taking to long, the Server needs to see if it can be sped up.”
You seem to think the server had managerial control over the kitchen. They do not.
Once the server puts the order in, there is virtually nothing the server can do to make the kitchen produce it faster. Individual dishes can be “railed” on occasion, but the kitchen won’t “rail” a whole table and certainly can’t “rail” the whole restaurant. Too much “railing” puts the kitchen behind for all the other customers. “Railing” is and should be the rare exception.
If the food is taking a long time, the server can try to get an approximate ETA from the kitchen and convey that information to the customers with apologies. But if you have a problem with how fast the kitchen puts out food, you need to speak to the manager.
The manager probably can’t really do anything about it in the short term either, but if they are having the hosts seat so many guests so quickly that the kitchen can’t feed them fast enough to keep them happy, the manager is the one who can do something about that in the long term.
“If it is obviously prepared incorrectly the following should happen:”
What you describe here is the normal procedure at every restuarant I worked at. Some problems are visible to the server, others not until the customer cuts into it or even until they try it. Where the server can see the problem, they should do just as you said. Then they should check back a few minutes after serving the dishes. If the customer alerts them to a problem then, they should do just as you described in that case.
But all of that is not the same as having control over food quality. The restuarant owners, managers, and head chef decide the quality of ingredients, cooking method, and presentation. The line cooks execute on that. The result is much, much better at some restaurants than others. Servers have no input or control over that, aside from special instructions like sauce on the side. If you go to Denny’s and don’t like your food, maybe you should try a better restaurant instead of stiffing your waiter.
“And if Waiting is bad because of low tips and complaining customers, there are jobs available at truck stops. Those jobs will pay at least the minimum wage with much less of the stress caused by demanding customers.”
I see. So you took the truck stop job instead of the wait job because it was more desirable to you overall, even after considering the tips at the wait job and the lack of tips at the truck stop job. Yet you moan and groan about servers getting tips while you did not.
“He worked as a janitor for $22 per hour. That’s more than twice what I earn and his employer knew all along he would not be a long term employee. But he worked in New York City and I work in rural Pennsylvania.”
So his living expenses were in astronomical compared to yours. Have you checked into what it costs to live in NYC? It’s an awful lot more than what it costs to live in rural PA. That point is so obvious and well known I can say that with confidence even though I live all the way across the country in Washington State, and have never lived anywhere on the East Coast.
“this blog was triggered by an unrealistic Tipping Guide”
I agree that the OP of this blog was silly, ignorant, and self-serving.
Leave that in an envelope an you’ll be cannonized.
You look it up! The standard is now 45%. And if you can’t tip at least that when you go out to dinner with your screaming kids and spend over $200 on food & drink, I’m not getting off my barstool to wait on you. Seriously, if you can’t scrape up the money for a generous tip then stay at home. Why do you think it’s called a tip? It should not matter that the service was poor. It’s the manager’s fault we’re understaffed. We work our tails off for just over $2 an hour. Believe me, I’d rather be sitting there with you and your friends eating and drinking. So give me a break when you need service and you see me flirting with people much better looking than you. Patience is a virtue. Most of us are working towards or have a Bachelor’s degree and we could just as well stay home and draw workers’ compensation and food stamps for anything less. When the IRS audits us for cheating on our taxes, we need to hire good attorneys because we don’t have our law degrees yet. So remember that the next time you’re trying to scrape up enough to take your family out to dinner. We don’t want you unless you can afford the tip we think we deserve. One patron had the nerve to leave me an envelope with a note that read, “The best tip I can give you is Jesus Christ!”
Greg, I wish I knew where you worked just so I could come in and then stiff you when I leave. It is ridiculously entitled people such as yourself that give a bad name to the many earnest and hardworking service people in this industry. Fortunately your opinion is just your opinion and your statement to stay at home if they cannot afford a generous tip can be completely ignored. I am both a waiter and a customer so I sit on both sides but I believe that if you want a good tip then you should do a good job without whining and complaining. Did you know the rules when you accepted the job? If you didn’t then you should have read your employee manual. If you did then stop whining and do your job or go home.
edward:
The post to which you replied was not posted by me; it was posted by someone pretending to be me. Also it seems to be a troll. Don’t feed the trolls.
I’m fairly confident that whoever posted it has never been a waiter. I also doubt that there are many people who have ever been a waiter who would seriously have that kind of attitude. I certainly never met one myself in 6 years of being a waiter and restaurant manager.
BTW, you’d have a hard time stiffing me without going back in time over 20 years to when I was a waiter. No one gets tips in the work I do now.
I tip 20% but still I do all right because I give the rest room attendant NOTHING. I resent someone standing next to a stack of paper towels in a rest room and expecting a tip. I can help myself to a paper towel, thanks.
The writer needs to get her facts straight. not all wait staff make “Just over $2 an hour” here they make the full minimum wage Over $9 an hour. so here I tip for great service and nothing more. otherwise waitstaff wages would be astronomical.
Jacques wrote that, “One of the more pleasant things about traveling outside the United States (especially Europe) is that there simply is no tipping.” Unfortunately, this is no longer true. I live in Europe and about 90% of the time these days the bill will actually have a statement that tips are not included in the bill.
Like so any other bad things borrowed from the Americans, tipping is becoming more commonplace here.
Curt:
“Like so many other bad things borrowed from the Americans, tipping is becoming more commonplace here.”
Ironically, Americans learned tipping, and brought the practice home, when traveling in Europe after the American Civil War.
All this misses the point. Tipping is an absurd, out-of-date concept and needs to be gradually phased out, not further entrenched. One of the more pleasant things about traveling outside the United States (especially Europe) is that there simply is no tipping. The vendor’s costs including labor are already added into the bill. (What a concept!) Those who’ve experienced this blissful world will know what I mean. The amount of stress that is removed is far more than any money saved or spent. Think about it. The American idea that the employer pays only a small share of the worker’s wages, and the CUSTOMER is supposed to make up the difference is so ridiculous that I can’t believe we put up with it. Imagine if this same concept were applied to other sectors of our economy. You buy a movie ticket at at theater and you pay “x” but are then supposed to tip the guy behind the window who sold it to you. Or you pay for popcorn and are then supposed to tip the seller. Or you buy something at Walmart but are then expected to tip, let’s say, the greeter. Or you stay at a hotel but are then expected to tip the check-in clerk, based on how nice a job they did. Or you pick up your dry cleaning and pay the bill but then hand extra money over to the cashier. Or how about groceries? Your travel agent? Your garbage collector? Your lawyer? Waitresses should be paid a fair market rate for the labor they provide. They are part of the cost structure of the restaurant. As a society we should be trying to catch up with the rest of the world, not find ways to increasingly metastasize a barbarous practice to ever more areas of our economy. Good news on this front: Times Square restaurants have started adding a tip automatically to the bill, and pro-actively showing that to the client. As in: “Sir, please note that at this restaurant the tip is already included.” They do this because so many non-U.S. customers are visiting Times Square, and they’re not used to this primitive, third-world practice of tipping. This is a GREAT solution. I love patronizing those restaurants if for no other reason than they charge me a fair price that covers ALL their costs, and I don’t have to stress out about “how much to tip” at the end of every meal…a process which does NOT enhance the experience.
jacques:
“You buy a movie ticket at at theater and you pay “x” but are then supposed to tip the guy behind the window who sold it to you. Or you pay for popcorn and are then supposed to tip the seller. Or you buy something at Walmart but are then expected to tip, let’s say, the greeter. Or you stay at a hotel but are then expected to tip the check-in clerk, based on how nice a job they did. Or you pick up your dry cleaning and pay the bill but then hand extra money over to the cashier. Or how about groceries? Your travel agent? Your garbage collector? Your lawyer?”
Hear, hear! Excellent examples illustrating what a ridiculous and inefficient system tipping is.
This is all getting very tiresome….yes I’m a waitress, make below min wage, earn tips and I don’t get any benefits. I am however going to school full time and a single mom of 3 wonderful daughters. I will eventually get out of the service industry even though it has made it possible to make a good living with a flexible schedule to fulfill my other obligations. Tip what you want!! for everyone who doesn’t think we deserve 20% there are more who think we do so it always comes out in my favor. I always give my best service even when I’m having a bad day and I don’t know what your going to tip until your gone so there’s nothing I can do about it. Just be nice to us servers and don’t put down our jobs!! You need us 🙂
Becca, I cannot believe that I have used up a good part of the morning reading these posts but they have been entertaining. Yours, though, actually makes the most sense of all that I have read. I have worked as a busboy, bar back, and waiter at a tourist destination in Florida off and on for about 15 years and 15% was what I expected though I often received more. My tips were often an indicator of my mood/level of commitment and they should have been. I am now a Professional Engineer and I make a lot more money but my job is not near as fun as when I was waiting tables. For anyone who thinks it is easy, just try pulling a double shift during the tourist season – if you’re not in the weeds for 50% of the time then it’s a slow night. I made some awesome money though on nights like that. Unfortunately, I and many of my co-workers would drink up half our tips once the shift ended and that is a lifestyle that is common to this industry. There were always the few responsible ones like you but most were more like me – carpe diem and let tomorrow take care of itself. I believe that this is the reason that the restaurant service industry should seldom be considered a career unless you truly have the discipline to keep a tight rein on your finances, save for taxes, and don’t fall prey to the party lifestyle. Obviously, as a single mom, that is not an option for you but in my experience that level of responsibility is the exception rather than the rule. One thing I’ll point out: I just read an article recently here in New Orleans about a waiter who put 2 children through Tulane Medical School on his tips without loans. Very much the exception but New Orleans is a whole different world anyway.
Tyler:
The MENU PRICES went up due to inflation. The dollar amount of the 15% tip went up by the same proportion. The constant increases in menu prices due to inflation are your constant cost-of-living raises due to inflation.
On what bases should the *percentage* of the tip go up too?
— Former waiter, in the 1980s and early 90s, before all this 20%-is-standard baloney.
I agree and inflation was a bad example. I am being honest though. I worked with a lot of severs and I am still friends with many in the industry. It is now the norm for good service to give 20% and decrease from there. Look I am not trying to say you have to do this but it is considered proper to tip 20% if the service was great and on point.
So back to my questions. Can anyone explain:
1) Who “decided” the standard was no longer 15% as it had been, but now 20%?
(As already explained above, there were logically defensible reasons for the increase from 10% to 15% in the early 1950s.)
2) Who made them God?
3) What was the rationale for the change?
I honestly don’t have a problem with a 15% tip….I do like 20% better though and that’s what I usually get 🙂
Who “decided” the standard was no longer 15% as it had been, but now 20%?
And who made them God?
And what was the rationale for the change?
Things change… I am not sure what changed but I waited tables off and on for 8 years. I worked at places like Chili’s and local sports bars/restaurants to high end steak and seafood restaurants. It was a coastal city in Florida and tourists traveled through from March to October. I am telling all of you, the standard for good service is 20%. Ya it went up … Maybe due to inflation.. I have really no idea but this is not new. I have been out of the industry for about 6 years now. Is 15% bad?? No… It is just not the standard for great service.
There’s no such thing as extra “good service”. Good service is your job.
The tax laws changed in the 1980’s. When the IRS started assuming that waiters made a standard amount from tips, based on a percentage of sales, their income went down and they started to leave the profession. To retain skilled workers, the standard tipping percentage got nudged up.
The other reason was to reduce sex discrimination. Back when the standard was 15%, it was assumed to be appropriate to tip 20% at high-end restaurants, where all the waiters happened to be male. These restaurants would not hire female waiters, for reasons I could never determine. Women finally noticed this discrepancy and acted on it, by simply deciding that there would no longer be a tipping rate divide, based solely on gender.
I think you 2 are from different backgrounds. While I am a Dr now, I did do waitressing while in college, and yes I would occasionally get stiffed, but rarely. more like if I was super busy (or hang-over, which did occasionally happen) I would get lower tips – expected. All in all, I think when i did get 15% I was grateful. 20% is not the standard, sorry to say. Its like saying, it is now standard to tip your doctor, and if you don’t then expect bad service…funny right?…I think thats what the person thinking you are funny was meaning. also, Ill tell you what, if you did give me bad service, I would talk to your manager, give bad reviews on yelp / zagat …and I can guarantee you, your boss would think twice about keeping you. dont forget, in the service industry where tips account for 50% +++ of salary, you have 2 bosses really, the restaurant owner / manager and the clients.
again, I will say this (& an article from an ex-waitress doesnt change it one bit) a good tip is 15% for good service. Now if its at a fine restaurant, and the billcomes to $200 for my husband and I, I likely will leave $30 for perfect service, just under $20 for ok service and $10 for anything less than ok. same goes for a breakfast joint that charges me $16 for 2 breakfasts, likely 25% for great service…you get the picture.. i guess I assume the average bill to be about $50-$60. When I say 15% tip, but there are differences when the bill is drastically lower or higher.
I am a pediatrician 🙂 Now i see why most people just stopped answering you, not worth commenting with ignorant people, not worth their time… I do get good service and I ask for it – or they wont get a dime of my 6 figure salary.
again, not worth educating ignorant Tyler…it may just be too late, and hey, I certainly don’t want to stop you from tipping 20% when you do go out to eat, its a free world 🙂 Bon Apetit.
I won’t say you’re lying about being a doctor…I don’t see any point in that…but Tyler is right, if you’re going to go around making statements about education, you should at the very least have passable spelling and grammar. Before you attempt to write in another language, maybe you should learn your own. Please stop butchering French and English and whatever else you think you know.
The “standard” WAS 15% – it is only SERVERS and restaurants that are trying to drive it higher.
Learn it, memorize it, and use it in your setting plans and expectations.
Look it up. The standard is 15%.
A tip is a gratuity, plain and simple. To those of you who demand that I pay a certain percentage as a tip, look up the meaning of gratuity.
Don’t tip 20%. Tip 15%. Let’s assume you spend $200 in restaurants each month. The difference is $10. If you use the $10 to pay down your mortgage loan, for example, you’ll pay off (say a 30-year) mortgage 8 months sooner than you would if you’re the kind of person who just gives away the $10. When you’re sick old, the waitress you tried to impress with a 20% tip isn’t going to visit you. She was just pushing your buttons that afternoon 30 years ago to get another 5% out of you. It was a pointless exchange, you got the losing end, and now you’re too sick and old to recoup. Make a promise to yourself today: 15% is customary and proper. Jezebell is not your friend.
Tip 15 for good service, nothing more. If your server isn’t attentive or great, tip 5-10%. If the service is bad then don’t leave a zero tip, you are right the server may think you just forgot instead, leave a one cent tip, I can assure you with that they will certainly change their attitude will fast especially if they want to stay in that industry.
Anything else is just stupid.
A waitress makes a case for bigger tips. Surprise, surprise.
Customers call BS. Surprise, surprise.
What audience might need to learn about customs? Children and immigrants.
Children tend to not know what money is worth, so when they come of age and first go to restaurants on their own or with their friends, they act like big shots and overtip.
Immigrants tend to really, really know what money is worth, so when they come to this country and go to restaurants, they tip on the low end.
It all evens out, but in the Poor Poor Pitiful Me Sisterhood of the Victim Waitress reports, we only hear about getting stiffed by the immigrants. Neither the blog reader nor the IRS hears the reports on overtipping.
WOW – Thanks for your post!
If you don’t mind saying, have you worked in a restaurant?
(Either serving or managing.)
Regardless, your post explains things better than most others did/could.
I.E., some of my posts were based on educated guesses, not knowledge.
However, my most important point to Servers was:
The less you pay in FICA (Social Security), the smaller your SS payment will be – and that will happen when you are either unable or unwilling to work any more. Keep in mind your payment amount is calculated using the THIRTY-FIVE highest contribution years.
Therefore, if you are now maximizing your take home pay, it will affect your retirement. You should either report & pay, or be setting aside money.
Hawkeye. Yes, I have worked in the food service industry in many capacities, from line cook to busboy. I also agree with your statement about SS. I recently (in the past 3 years) became disabled due to an old injury that continued to increase in severity until it took my ability to perform anything I had been trained to do. Sadly, because of my lack of formal education and shoddy work history thank to my increasing disability, my SS payment is deplorable. Always plan for the future.
Ok, just wow.
First let me state that I believe in tipping when it is called for. Now that that is out of the way let me tell ya. Do NOT let any wait staff BS you into thinking that they are getting shafted by the “man” and getting crap wages. Granted minimum wage is not all that good but it’s something. You don’t see the guy at McDonalds that has to clean your kids puke from the floor begging for a tip. You don’t see the guy who changes your oil at Jiffy Lube chasing you down the road so you can augment his minimum wage income. Ok, ok, now comes the time when the waiters and waitresses posting here get up in arms and start ranting about getting paid 2.75 an hour and that tips are MANDATORY to make up the difference. Here is what the person writing this editorial and the waitstaffers that are commenting fail to mention to you. If they go through a day without making enough tips to equal minimum wage, their employer is FEDERALLY MANDATED TO MAKE UP THE DIFFERENCE. Oh yeah, if Lucy Goosey makes works 8 hours @ 2.75 that’s 22.00. Federal Minimum Wage is 7.25 making an 8 hour shift worth 58.00. If the waitstaff does not make 32.00 in tips, aside from being a deplorable worker, they also receive the difference in their next paycheck. Granted they actually have to report to their employer what tips they DID make, giving the employer a good idea of their work ethic so it rarely happens. They just go home and whine about it online. Also bear this in mind. They are also required to fess up when they make MORE than minimum wage when their tips are added to their hourly income for tax purposes. Guess how many times THAT happens??? Think on this….. A dead beat prick is waiting tables at Applebees. He makes 3.00 an hour. Thats 24.00 in a 8 hour shift. Say he has a good night and make’s 100.00 in tips. That’s 124.00 for an 8 hour shift. I guarantee if he refuses to pay child support that he will not claim ANYTHING extra on his paycheck. Since the Feds are only going to tax him on minimum wage his paystub reflects a daily income of 58.00. ORS can and will tak up to half of this so it’s cut to 29.00 for the day for a net total of 95.00. given a 5 day workweek Mr. Loving Father brought in 475.00 income, 330.00 of it tax free. and he sent his child that he cares so much for 145.00. Please, PLEASE, do not let servers give you a sob story. If they are good at what they do they will ake money. If they are bad workers they will make minimum wage.
Thank you for a very informative post!
Wow:
Clearly you have never been a waiter nor asked one about your topic.
A waiter who reports so little income will soon get audited by the IRS. The IRS will look at the tips that waiter received on credit card transactions. They will assume he got the same percentage of tips on cash and check transactions too, and will calculate how much tips they think he made. Then they will charge him for the federal tax on those tips, plus a big fine for under-reporting.
Since he probably didn’t keep track of exactly who received the 25 – 30% tipouts, he’ll have to pay the federal tax — and fine — on that amount too.
After that experience, he’ll report his tips accurately, or at least accurately enough that any future audits won’t be so painful.
How the ORS will get its share, assuming his paycheck is less than half his total restaurant income, I couldn’t say.
Greg, Please don’t presume to know anything about me personally. I did not once, in my post, make any assumptions about anyone specific or any of the information given. Yes, an audit is possible if you do not claim tips. The IRS could possibly come and get you. However, my statements were based on experience. I worked as a short order cook for 10 years for an east coast based restaurant chain. No, this does not make me an expert on the subject. However it does give me a unique perspective on waitstaff income. For the ten years I worked I never knew a single server that was truthful about their actual tip income. Before anyone gets their back up and feels the need to point it out, you are right, this may not reflect the norm but it’s my experience. I can also state that in ten years I never heard any servers speka of an audit. While yes, it can happen, in that income bracket, it’s probably around 1% probability or less.
Wow:
I know several servers who were audited, but they didn’t go around bragging about it. The cooks may well have had no idea most of them were audited.
Those who underclaimed, though, certainly bragged about that. Even after being audited, in one case, strangely. I’m not convinced he was still really underclaiming; I think he just liked to get a rise out of people.
I was audited myself, after only about 3 years of serving. Fortunately all they had on me was the fact that I had not claimed my tipouts. So I had to pay the back taxes on my tipouts (the tipouts I paid to the cooks, bussers, and hosts), plus a fine for not having paid them on time. No one told me I had to keep track of who my tipouts went to every day in order not to have to claim them as my own income, until I was audited. I hope the cooks, bussers, and hosts all enjoyed their tax-free income.
Given how many servers I knew who had been audited, and the fact that they were generally not keen to talk about it (it’s embarrassing), and your explanation that you were a cook not a server yourself, I think it’s more likely that your view on how often servers are audited is heavily biased.
“For the ten years I worked I never knew a single server that was truthful about their actual tip income. ”
Did every single one of them tell you point blank that they lied? Or have you possibly made an assumption about one or more of them?
“I worked as a short order cook for 10 years for an east coast based restaurant chain. No, this does not make me an expert on the subject. However it does give me a unique perspective on waitstaff income. ”
Working at only one restaurant does not give you much of a perspective, no matter how many years you worked there. I worked at five different restaurants, more than one at a time for a while (lunch at a better restaurant where I didn’t yet have the seniority to get dinners, and dinners at restaurant where I had the seniority).
Also — short order cook?? Sounds like a dive. I was a part-time short order cook myself one year in college, but as a waiter I never worked with a short-order cook in any of the 5 restaurants. Instead there were chefs, sous-chefs, and pantry chefs. Sometimes more than those three, but none that were ever referred to as short-order cooks. Maybe the servers you worked with were very low income indeed.
“While yes, it can happen, in that income bracket, it’s probably around 1% probability or less.”
On what basis do you make that claim? It was certainly more than 1% of the servers I knew.
By the way, here’s one thing I never saw happen in any of those 5 restaurants: a server’s wages being supplemented to bring them up to minimum wage, even on days when the server never got a table, which typically happened to 1 or 2 servers most days, excluding busy summer weekends.
Look if I was a smart hairdresser writing an article to a gull able audience, I would probably say that your should tip 20-30% also…hehehe. Why is everyone up in arms. This is not REALITY! You should be tipping 15% for GOOD service. 10% for ok service and sorry the point about even if its bad service, then still tip 15% is hilarious…If I had bad service I would tip well below 10%. BTW – this is BEFORE tax.
Guys, not worth insulting each other on a public forum. It is what it is, this article doesn’t change the tipping of most educated people, even non-educated for that matter. As one person pointed out, 10 years ago, dinner for 2 would cost drastically less than today, for a % tip does take care of inflation. All good.
If you can’t afford to leave a decent tip then you have no business going out to eat. In today’s world 20% is not an excessive amount. Even when I travel abroad, and a service charge is part of the bill, I still leave a little something, perhaps a euro or two. It won’t make or break me, and could help someone. Show a little class.
Always 20% or more to the 45 year old server at Dennys, or similar places, any place else its 15%. If anything the server does approaches bad service the tip scale begins to slide depending on the infrcation.
I had a server that dumped our syrup on the floor, and didn’t even notice. We still tipped him greatly because it really was that busy; he had multiple things to do.
Here’s a money saving tip: tip 15% for good service, less for poor service. If the service is exceedingly good, tip 15% and offer hearty thanks — maybe follow up with a thank you note. Nobody waiting tables at a restaurant or bar should expect more than 15%.
Well said! I don’t know why there is any debate or discussion about this. There is no shame in following customs. There is no new norm 15% for bad service and 20%+ for good service. That’s one waitress’s wishful thinking.
The norm is 15% for good service and less for bad service.
My mother worked as a waitress in the mid 70’s and told me 10% was a good tip. And according to her, she made good tips! Now servers expect 20% for 15-20 minutes worth of work. I’m sticking with 10%, the general rule of thumb (for me), which is about $25-$30 an hour. This is easy to calculate, and it rewards servers for good service. I know many people claim 15% is adequate, but keep in mind that your server is making just over $4.77 an hour in Florida without tips and I’ve never seen one of them really run him or herself ragged. Yes, some do work hard but, if they didn’t get the pay, they wouldn’t stay.
Check it out: http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm
And why would you listen to a woman that’s supposed to be an ex-waitress, but whose husband has no idea what to tip and says, “When we go out to eat, my husband always asks, “How much should I tip?”” How long have they been married? He sounds like the restaurant owner.
Tippy-Canoe,
Well Said!
And Thank You for providing the link.
Tippy-Canoe:
According to standard etiquette books, 10% has not been the standard since the 1940s. Perhaps your mother worked at a dive where most customers thought 10% was normal. Or perhaps she worked in a buffet-style restuarant, where 10% is more common.
Back when 10% was the standard, the wine steward was tipped separately. Today, the wine steward gets a tipout from the waiter.
In the 1950s, when 15% became the standard according to etiquette books, casual fine-dining restaurants became much more common, where the prices were much lower than high-end restaurants but a similar level of service was expected. Before the 1950’s, dining at a fine-dining restuarant was for the wealthy, and only an occasional splurge for the middle class. The middle class did not eat at fine dining restaurants with that level of service anywhere near as frequently before the 1950s as they do now.
A lot of variation in the United States (and, by the way, only restaurants for the top 1% have wine stewards).
In southern states, the old school tips $1 — no matter what the bill is. One progressive variation on this is to tip $1/person — no matter what the bill is. Right-to-work states, so, yes, sub-minimum wage without a whole lot of tip money to bring it to the minimum. Southern Poverty Law Center should actually run a clinic to enforce the federal minimum wage because this is rampant. Finally, in the South, you have some carpetbaggers, like those at the Southern Poverty Law Center, who tip the normal amount, which is 15% but feels like 30% in the South.
Since when is 15% not a sufficient tip, especially if you include the tax which actually makes it 16% and you round up the bill and tip amount to the next dollar which makes it closer to 18%?
I typically tip a snot rag. They get my business — that’s it. Maybe I’d leave a tip if I were a homo or a jew and didn’t have too many other places that would serve me. They’ve got an indoors job. What so they have to complain about?
Probably not many places would serve you, if they knew you.
If you have experience at high-end restaurants and bars, you know that cocaine is a big problem. My friend waited tables at McCormick and Culettos in San Francisco. She didn’t get Friday and Saturday night shifts because she wouldn’t use cocaine or buy it from the captain. I’ve also known a handful of bar owners who have lost their shirts when coke permeates the scene, and the bartenders loot the booze and cash register.
It’s not just that I don’t want to feed your habit, it’s that I can tell a coke head from across the room, and I genuinely do not like you. Ultimately, I try to avoid restaurants and bars where cocaine is a big problem, but I certainly am not going to tip 20% because a coked up, quasi-hooker tells me it’s the new normal.
On average, people tip 20%. This does not mean that each and every time I am going to leave you a 20% tip. This means I leave very nice waitresses who are real people 30%, and phonies who think they are manipulating me 10%.
If you know what good service is, and you provide it, you might get 20% or more.
If you don’t know what good service is, you might get less.
If you don’t provide good service, you might get less.
Even if I serve myself I have to tip 15%, and workers who work for tips get the minimum wage. There are minimum wages for tip workers and the employer must make up the difference if the employee doesn’t make at least the regular minimum wage with their wage and tips combined.
Also in my state, the minimum wage for tip workers is well above $2. People at the grocery store make minimum wage, but not servers. Servers at restaurants often complain about making $200 and up a night. I’ve worked as a busser; those are the people you should be giving money to instead.
== Bad Service
There are different levels of bad service.
1. If the waiter is an honest moron who is trying but still providing bad service, I leave a normal tip (15%).
2. If the waiter is brilliant but in the wrong profession, but treats me with respect and gives his best effort, I leave a normal tip (15%).
3. If the waiter’s chatter makes me look bad on a date, makes me or my date uncomfortable, I leave a bad tip (10%).
4. If the waiter ignores me or constantly puts other customers ahead of me, I leave nothing (0%). You are lucky I don’t complain and get you fired.
== Good Service
1. If the waiter recommends a dish that does not meet the hype, I leave a normal tip (15%). It doesn’t matter what else you do well, you sold me something that didn’t measure up.
2. If the waiter recommends a dish that is all that, I leave a good tip (20%).
3. If the waiter’s chatter makes me look good on a date, I leave a good tip (20%).
4. If the waiter treats me like a friend, I leave a very good tip (30-50%).
== Special Occasions
1. If I am hosting a gathering of friends, colleagues, or family, and it goes well enough, I leave 30%.
2. Once a month, I have lunch at a taqueria owned by a widow who speaks no English, and I leave a $20 tip on a $7 check.
3. During the holidays, I have a coffee and pie at small diners and leave the career waitresses who have seen better days $100 tips.
4. If I am in a third world country on vacation, I leave 100-200% or more. At least double what I’d ever leave the spoiled brat who wrote this article.
Best response yet!!
I noticed you didn’t say ANYTHING about how busy the resturant is (shouldn’t all good resturants be busy?)
You Didn’t say if the Server was having a bad day (I’m out for a good time, I want my servers to have their best day ever, OR FAKE IT.)
We can’t eat out much, Its a big deal to us. With that in mind I’ll add:
== Good Service
5. If I have fun (20%-25%)
6. Good Service For Breakfast (25%) (Same or more # of plates, cheaper tab)
I consider serving food to be part skill, part performance, It’s not for everyone. People choose, or at least need their job, and should remember which side of their bread is buttered, and act accordingly.
On a side not, about once a week, I eat the best tamales in the world from a taco truck parked in my little town in Oregon. They run $2.00 a piece. The grandma (She doesn’t speak english, so I don’t know for sure, but I’m guessing the little one that stays with her in the truck is a Grandson), any way, I always take 10, and she now has them wrapped up for me, with the homemade hot sauce I like, that’s not too Hot (I don’t speak spanish, so that took a little interpreting, mime and hand gestures to explain) I give her $30, and maybe a dollar or two to the boy if I have cash (for interpreting).
She doesn’t come out to a table, or get me a glass of water, but I still appreciate good service, (and good food) and an enterprising spirit, and will pay for it.
I have only left a zero tip one time, when a waitress tried to steal $5 in change. She didn’t bring it back to me, and avoided me until I went and asked her about it. Otherwise I just tip 20% because service is always good enough, I’ve found.
I did see a friend leave a zero tip on a nearly $200 bill one time. It was in a high-end restaurant in Park City, UT. The friend and his wife opted to share a meal because they had already eaten pretty well that day. My wife and I each ordered pretty pricey meals, though. It ticked off the waiter so much (only 3 meals worth of tips instead of 4) that he took more than an hour to get us served. We watched 2 or 3 of his tables get served way before us, and they all came in after us. My friend made to try to talk to the waiter in the interim, in vain. In the end, the waiter sacrificed about $40 in tips for the sake of maybe an extra $15 he was disappointed he didn’t get. And the management got an earful, too.
15% is what I’ve always known and what I tip, if the service is good. In California, just double the sales tax, and you’re slightly over 15% and appropriately exclude tipping on the sales tax. I don’t appreciate the push to make 20% the standard, although I have tipped 20% when I received phenomenal service, where my server went far above and beyond with special requests and roudy kids. I round up to the nearest whole dollar to make the tip an even number which is easier to add up the total.
15% on top of the taxes It is what I get for good service… In San Francisco, They had a healthy San Francisco tax which pays for the Bartenders health care, So if I see that I take it off the 15%.
If I get back service like really bad service I leave zero, And for average service I leave 10 to 15% but not including the taxes in that. I was in act waitressed myself and I know that tips do add up to a lot of cash which you don’t claim… So now I really feel sorry for the waitress or bartender.
This article is kind of a joke…
Not very inclined to tip anyone referring to us as YOU GUYS or asking if everything is OK as soon as the food is put on the table after a 20 minute wait. As far as 20% goes, how about service that deserves that amount. How is it measured and why is that so ironclad.
One who has worked as a waiter.
I was a waiter and then restaurant manager for several years. Today I’m in a different industry where there is no tipping.
Tipping is a bad system for everyone. It’s true that paying servers only an hourly wage would not give them enough incentive to work hard. Instead, they should be paid a combination of hourly wage, commission on their own sales, and a share of the restaurant’s profits. And, guests should be encouraged to request a favorite server.
If servers are paid only an hourly wage, they won’t have enough incentive to work hard. If they are paid only a commission, their incentive will be to sell as much as possible to each guest regardless of whether they really think the guest will enjoy it, and they won’t have much incentive to ensure the guest wants to come back. If they are paid only a share of the restaurant’s profits, some of them will get lazy and let others do the work.
But if they are paid a combination of those three, they have an incentive both to hustle for their current guests, and to ensure those guests want to come back so the restaurant does well over time. They’ll also have an incentive to contribute to making the restaurant run efficiently.
Restaurant owners say they’ll never get enough customers if menu prices are high enough to compensate servers properly. Nonsense. If they promote the restaurant as a non-tip restaurant, they will be swamped with guests. If they give the servers proper incentive to both hustle for their current tables and ensure that guests want to return, they’ll have a busy restaurant going forward. Of course, the food has to be excellent too. That’s really the main thing that brings people back.
What I’ve seen in the decades since I worked in restaurants is more types of workers demanding tips, and tipped workers demanding higher tips. It’s a bad idea all around. Most people don’t like to have to try to remember who they’re supposed to tip and how much, and how much more or less to tip if service is very good or very bad. If they can get the same service elsewhere without having to think about a tip, many people will. This ever-increasing emphasis on tips is a dysfunctional regression to an old-fashioned, extremely inefficient compensation system that should have died out long, long ago.
I agree 100%. Tipping is odd and out of place in modern industrialized nations where businesses can do the accounting to figure out what the prices should be and what the wages and benefits should be. If it means fewer people start small businesses, fine. I don’t think we’d be worse off if our high school dropouts didn’t get to start fastfood franchises so they could make money off of a workforce comprised of teenagers and immigrants.
Let the aristocrats tip the peasants to do ad hoc odd jobs in the rural lands. And let the rest of us get real.
I’m a server and I actually somewhat agree with this. It would be nice to have a salary on top of part of the restaurants profits, I would have a better idea of what I’d be making every month instead of playing the guessing game.
> The waiter took our order and brought 7 items to our table. We were in the restaurant for about an hour and were less than 1/5 of the server’s customers. I guess another way of looking at it is we paid about $2 for each stop at our table. If the other customers tipped as we did the waiter got $70 plus minimum wage during the hour we were there. <
Yes, this is exactly how a worker's performance and payment should be measured. It's all about what work you SEE them doing. When you don't SEE them working, or when you're not there to see them at all, they're obviously not doing any work that has anything to do with the product and service you're paying for.
For example, when you buy a car, you may be with the saleman for an hour, and he probably earns $500 – $2,000. Multiply that by 8 for an 8-hour day, and you can see he's making way too much, especially for a job that requires no college or other higher education.
Also, real estate agents. When you buy or sell a house, the real estate agent makes several thousand dollars. But you only see them for maybe a couple hours total. Wow, several thousand dollars for a couple hours work — they must be the most overpaid people in the universe! And no higher education required for that job either. It's so unfair!
Oh, and how about my own job — software programming. A typical project takes many hours, but the client doesn't sit there and watch me do it. My interaction with the client might only total an hour, for a project that takes 5, 10, 20 hours or more. Yet I have the gall to charge for more than just the hour I'm sitting with the client. Why do they pay me for all those hours when I was working alone? They must be crazy.
Greg – you really don’t get it – makes me wonder what kind of “software programmer” you are. There is a big difference between a trained software architect and programmer I guess.
In the software industry, the client is paying you for a product, not just “tipping you” for a service. They KNOW they need to pay you for the hour you may sit to gather requirements PLUS the time it takes to do the actually programming. It is not a tipping business.
The same can be said for the car salesperson. Sure, they may get $500, or maybe $1000 per car they sell, but they don’t usually sell 8 cars a day.
Also, agree that the amount paid for real estate is large, but to say the person only works a couple of hours for the sale really shows you know very little about real estate. The CLOSING of the home can be a couple of hours. You seem to forget about the multiple showings and such prior to that – I know our real estate person showed us 20-30 houses, probably spending 30 minutes or more per house after the multiple trips. I am not saying they are not highly compensated, but they spend much more than the “couple of hours” you mention.
I guess I don’t know if you are just purposely lying or are just that obtuse.
Harlon Katz:
You are hilarous. You have misunderstood my post in more ways than I would have thought possible.
(Something went wrong with my previous post. Trying again, this time splitting it up. Part 3 here..)
Hawkeye:
> So, try if you can to walk a day in my shoes. At the end of the day,
then go out to eat, enjoy a meal noticing your Server attending … <
Wait — you make $10.40/hour and you go out to eat at service restaurants?!? How do you make ends meet? Do you live with your parents? Does your wife make more than you? Do you deal drugs on the side?
Long ago I was a bookstore clerk making not much more than minimum wage. Instead of eating at restaurants, I was buying the cheapest food I could find. I remember buying loaves of bread in damaged bags for 10 cents at an outlet store. A bit stale where the bag was ripped but so cheap! And lots of beans — beans are cheap. But no eating out at nice restaurants. How do you do it?
By the way, you're absolutely right on one point: everyone, in all industries, should be paid according to how much you are paid at your job. If they seem to be working about as hard as you, in conditions about as difficult, they should be paid about as much as you. If they're working less hard, or in conditions not as difficult, they should be paid less than you. Can't wait to hear how it goes trying to pay your plumber or auto mechanic that way. Or car salesman, if you prefer comparing to a job that requires no more education than waiter.
(Something went wrong with my previous post. Trying again, this time splitting it up. Part 2 here..)
Hawkeye:
> Yesterday I worked an eight hour shift, outside, temperature falling to
28 degrees and W-I-N-D-Y, which made it feel a lot colder, and Dusty! And recently received a raise bringing my hourly rate up to an
incredible $10.40 per hour! <
So you're working in very uncomfortable conditions for not much more than minimum wage. Sounds like a terrible job.
Why can't you get a better job? Are you a felon?
(Something went wrong with my previous post. Trying again, this time splitting it up..)
Hawkeye:
> I will continue posting as long as Servers keep crying. <
I'm not crying. I left restaurant work 20 years ago. Today I'm a software programmer. I make 4 times what I made as a waiter, and work less hard.
(BTW, note to servers: it isn't that hard to become a software programmer. I didn't go to school for it; I'm self-taught. Get a tutorial, get certified, and watch your income grow while doing more enjoyable work.)
Also BTW I'm not advocating for 20% tip. When I was waiting tables, it was 15% for good, competent service, and some guests tipped more for excellent service. I don't see any justification for expecting 20% for merely good, competent service. I tip 15% for good, competent service, 20% for going above and beyond the call of duty.
Greg,
Let me get this straight:
You are a software programmer yet unable to post a complete response to this thread so you have to make multiples…
Hope your employer(s) read this – you’ll be back to waiting tables in no time!
BTW, I am a retired Data Processing Manager with over 25 years in the computer field. When you don’t know your audience, it is very easy to stick your big, stinky foot right into your mouth.
I’m working because the job provides exercise, is 2.5 miles from home, and includes benefits. And is no business of yours.
And a Vietnam veteran with an I.Q. of 142
Suppose you voted for Obama,..
Hawkeye,
> Suppose you voted for Obama,.. You are a software programmer yet unable to post a complete response to this thread so you have to make multiples… And a Vietnam veteran with an I.Q. of 142 <
Yet you moan & groan about working under difficult conditions for little more than minimum wage. It doesn't add up. Do you expect to be believed?
This forum software is buggy; doesn’t seem to like more than one set of arrows used for quoting, and mangles the post. Trying again with quotes instead of arrows:
Hawkeye:
“Suppose you voted for Obama,..”
Let me answer with your own words:
“When you don’t know your audience, it is very easy to stick your big, stinky foot right into your mouth.”
“You are a software programmer yet unable to post a complete response to this thread so you have to make multiples…”
Buggy forum software. I didn’t write this forum software. Nothing wrong with my posts as originally entered.
“And a Vietnam veteran”
What’s your point? Do you want us to genuflect? Does your service make you a superior, infallible being? Thanks for your service, but your service doesn’t make you God.
“with an I.Q. of 142”
And yet you moan & groan about working in difficult conditions for little more than minimum wage. It doesn’t add up. Do you expect to be believed?
“I’m working because the job provides exercise, is 2.5 miles from home, and includes benefits.”
Ah, “includes benefits”. You’re working after retirement because you have to for one financial reason or another, and $10.40/hour in difficult conditions is the best job you can find. Plus you get some exercise!
Maybe you should pick up a tutorial on software programming and go freelance. You could do a lot better than $10.40 an hour — enough to make up for not getting bennies from an employer — and work comfortably indoors. And then exercise in your free time.
But instead you’ll continue complaining about everyone who works less hard than you for more money, which is virtually everyone, and underpaying them whenever you have the power to do so, as when dining out. Have fun with that. I can just imagine the self-righteous look on your face as you stiff your waiter.
“And is no business of yours.”
So why did you tell me? Where’s that IQ of 142 when you need it?
Hawkeye:
> I will continue posting as long as Servers keep crying. Yesterday I worked an eight hour shift, outside, temperature falling to
28 degrees and W-I-N-D-Y, which made it feel a lot colder, and Dusty! And recently received a raise bringing my hourly rate up to an
incredible $10.40 per hour! So, try if you can to walk a day in my shoes. At the end of the day,
then go out to eat, enjoy a meal noticing your Server attending … <
Wait — you make $10.40/hour and you go out to eat at service restaurants?!? How do you make ends meet? Do you live with your parents? Does your wife make more than you? Do you deal drugs on the side?
Long ago I was a bookstore clerk making not much more than minimum wage. Instead of eating at restaurants, I was buying the cheapest food I could find. I remember buying loaves of bread in damaged bags for 10 cents at an outlet store. A bit stale where the bag was ripped but so cheap! And lots of beans — beans are cheap. But no eating out at nice restaurants. How do you do it?
By the way, you're absolutely right on one point: everyone, in all industries, should be paid according to how much you are paid at your job. If they seem to be working about as hard as you, in conditions about as difficult, they should be paid about as much as you. If they're working less hard, or in conditions not as difficult, they should be paid less than you. Can't wait to hear how it goes trying to pay your plumber or auto mechanic that way. Or car salesman or real estate agent, if you prefer comparing to a job that requires no more education than waiter.
This article is just another of many thinly veiled attempts by the service industry to increase tips! Next time you go into a restaurant, just look around and see all the ways we are being manipulated by the owners and the wait staff. Look at menu layout and notice how the overpriced appetizers jump out at you! Watch your trained seal of a server bend down to your level as she takes your order at Applebee’s. Notice the “market price” on most of the suggestions and specials made at some fine dining establishments. Look at the clumsy way the waiter comes around and asks if everything is okay when you are chewing on your food. Do you think he really cares or is he just making the suggested rounds? Now we are being manipulated into leaving better tips!
To most of the wait staff the customers are nothing more than marks waiting to be manipulated. We should start to fight back against manipulation and poor service. Perhaps we should all just cut the times we go out to eat until early September. Then we could go out twice as often as normal and then strike back that month by only leaving a 10% tip! A real victory for the consumer! Let’s bring some sanity back into a bad system. 15% is really all that is needed.
Yes, I agree, I’ve been seeing this sort of thing for 20 years with Wait staff trying to up the level of tipping. Its 10% for ok service, 15% for good service, more for great, and in modern america add 5% if the staff are required to wear some special outfit. Ie Hooters girls or Magic time machine.. Also don’t forget to increase it if you “use up a wait staff persons table” fore excessive time. Ie you and your buddies camp out at sports bar for 4 hours while nursing a few pitchers and watching the game and she could have gotten 2 other groups in and served and left.
I forgot to add — when he gets audited, the IRS will look at the credit card reciepts and assume that the average percentage tip he got on them is the same as the average percentage tip he got on other forms of payment. But people who pay by credit card tip higher, on average, than people who pay cash or check. So he’s paying federal tax on phantom “tips” that he never recieved — plus a fine since he didn’t pay the tax on those phantom “tips” until audited.
This is hilarious. I don’t care about a servers problems get back there and bring me my food. Tip out Whomever you need to I don’t care what you make our how hard your life is. I go out to eat to relax not worry about your problems
Well maybe you were just in a bad mood–
Otherwise … you don’t care about me, I don’t care about you. I work to make a living, not to provide your relaxation.
What goes around comes around. Maybe not today, or tomorrow, but you will reap what you sow.
Why do you think we come to the restaurant if not to relax? You are part of the industry that feels you are to good to serve people who don’t praise you for your service. The implied contact is I pay for food and service that you provide that’s all. You’re not a friend or family so let’s not pretend that I care about you or your problems. Your work involves serving me my food that’s all. Do your job or pick a different line of work.
Do you work in the fast food service? Your grammar and punctuation are horrendous. 🙂
Nope. Just not sitting in my mothers basement replying to forums. I’m out and about and have a phone that sometimes corrects incorrectly.
I am impressed that you automatically assumed that I worked in fast food because of assumptions you made about my level of education. Kinda makes my point for me.
Thanks
I work at McDonald’s with 2 Bachelor’s degrees. Saying “get an education” isn’t spectacularly useful. A better job certainly WOULD be, but we see other adults with degrees come in, looking for work, all the time.
Only rarely do I tip less than 20%, because if I can’t afford to, I choose not to go out. I can afford to go out, sometimes, because I choose to live rather frugally most of the rest of the time.
Our restaurant claims our tips for us based on our sale even if we don’t get tipped….I’m not complaining though because most people are very nice and I make good money 🙂
Wow, I want to be fair but that was a bit aggressive! We just cam back from eating out. The bill BEFORE taxes and without considering the coupon we used was $70. We tipped $14.
The waiter took our order and brought 7 items to our table. We were in the restaurant for about an hour and were less than 1/5 of the server’s customers. I guess another way of looking at it is we paid about $2 for each stop at our table. If the other customers tipped as we did the waiter got $70 plus minimum wage during the hour we were there. And you are telling me we didn’t tip enough?
> If the other customers tipped as we did the waiter got $70 plus minimum wage during the hour we were there. <
Let's take a look at that. First, the other customers didn't tip 20% as you did. Your waiter probably averaged 15%. That would be $52.50 not $70.
Next, he probably had to tip out about 25% of that, rounded up to the nearest dollar each for cooks, bussers, and hosts. That would be $16, bringing the waiter's share down to $36.50.
Next, for each hour he was busy earning tips, he probably had to be there another hour doing various non-tipped work like buffing silverware and glasses, making sure his tables were clean, then various cleanup chores at the end of his shift. That cuts his hourly tip earnings in half, to $18.25.
Now, factor in the days he comes to work, spends an hour or so buffing etc., and is sent home without ever getting a table. That's probably at least 1 shift in 10, more in the winter. It's hard to quantify exactly how much that brings down his average hourly tip earnings, but it would bring it at least down to about $17.50.
Add back his hourly wage, what was it, $2.00? So he's at $19.50/hour.
By the way, if he doesn't keep a record of every tipout, every day, which no one will tell him to do, he'll have to pay the federal tax on those tipouts. The cooks, bussers, and hosts who are getting those tipouts aren't paying any federal tax on them. If he neither keeps track of tipouts nor pays federal tax on them, eventually he'll get audited and have to pay a big fine in addition to paying tax on all those past tipouts.
Also note that the restaurant is careful not to give him 40 hours a week, because they don't want to risk having to pay overtime on that $2.00/hour. So if he wants to work full time, he's going to have to find a second job.
Also note that unlike employees in many other industries, he gets no benefits. So he either pays through the nose for crummy individual health insurance, or (more likely) goes without health insurance because he can't afford it.
I know a floor worker at Costco who makes more per hour, and his job is a lot less stressful. Recall the study that found that the two most stressful jobs were surgeon and waiter.
Greg,
I will continue posting as long as Servers keep crying.
Yesterday I worked an eight hour shift, outside, temperature falling to 28 degrees and W-I-N-D-Y, which made it feel a lot colder, and Dusty!
And recently received a raise bringing my hourly rate up to an incredible $10.40 per hour!
Shockingly, no one I interacted with gave me a single cent in tips!
When you start serving outside, I’ll give you more credence.
We have a patio so I do serve outside 🙂
Becca,
Thanks for posting!
Relief from the wrangling.
How many states really only pay servers $2 an hour? I mean seriously. I know that some states do but many states go by the state minimum wage. In Washington State, our minimum wage is over $9 an hour and I know most servers make this plus tips. So depending on where the restaurant is located, saying all servers make $2 is a lie.
In the above calculations, that brings the $19.50/ hour up to $26.50 /hour. Both those rates are very decent pay, especially when you consider some people make minimum wage with no tips and somehow survive.
I do tip, based on service and not because I’m pressured to do so. I have two messy kids, I clean up my area to the best of my ability, and I do tip more if my child has made a huge mess on the floor. Of course, I don’t take my kids to high end restaurants and I don’t often frequent the high-end restaurants because I simply don’t want to pay $100 per person for a meal. I’m frugal.
I, too, put myself through college I did not work as a server, because I choose not to. I choose jobs that paid minimum wage with no tips, but that I enjoyed. I paid for my own schooling, and I survived.
We tip partly because we are obligated and partly because someone has prepared and served us food. However, it gets annoying when then those servers who we are “gifting” for good service, start to complain about bad tippers and it has to be a set amount. A tip is gift and a thank you for the service you provide. If you want a really good tip, then your service should be stellar all day everyday. Please don’t expect tips and you will never be disappointed.
Yeah it was nice living in WA plus I also worked at the airport and we had a restaurant servers union and I got paid $10.50 an hour to bartend but that is extremely rare. I now work in AZ where I get paid $4.65 an hour (it raised from $2.13 a couple of years ago) I don’t get a paycheck because they subtract what the restaurant claims for us in taxes. It’s not a bad gig and I do love my job and I also pride myself on giving good service. Sometimes I get a bad tip but there is usually a super good tipper who makes up for it 🙂 it all works out in the end. My advice…tip what you want but we pay out taxes out of what we sell and what the Gov thinks we should’ve made on that regardless if we do or not.
Becca,
I appreciate your posts!
Always honest and devoid of greed.
To All: I’ve posted this here before, but most probably don’t have the time to read every post.
If, you’re not reporting all of your income, you need to be putting part in a savings account. (E.G., pocketing and not reporting all of your cash tips.) That’s because your social security payment will be calculated using your thirty-five highest contribution years.
Many feel they can “make it up” or earn more later…
But 35 years is a l-o-n-g time!
Being 64 years old, I have looked into the calculation – I’m not guessing. And my payment when/if I’m 66 will be good because all of my earnings were reported and taxed.
as former waiter, manager,and cafe owner, let me explain the pay and the taxes. first, all states are required to pay at least minimum wage for servers. the feds minimum or there states minimum which ever is greater. second there taxes from tips are calculated into there pay checks. not all there tips but a percentaged of them from there custormers checks.. not to many people use cash now a days so you can’t hide tips like years passed. and here’s a TIP for tipping, subtract the drinks tip 15% then add 3% for the drinks. not that hard to do since everyone has a cell phone with a calculater that they’re probably on the whole time they’re in the restaurant .
LOL….Love how the server writes an article about how to tip. “Just round it up to the nearest $100 and tack on another 25%!!!!”. Gimme a break. 20% off the total bill after tax is stock every time. You have to pay your bus boys and dish washers???? Try laying off the pipe and go back to school. Honeslty, you are shuffling food back and forth. The chef should be the one who gets tipped if I enjoy my experience in a restaurant. Guarantee you it had zero to do with how my food got placed in front of me without spilling any of it. ugh. Worst article in history
Poi, How many times have you actually tipped the chef. Here is a little lesson for you…..if you are in a BYOB, send a glass of wine back to the kitchen for the chef. That is a nice gesture, something that you are obviously not accustomed to.
Short and sweet: If the service rocks, so will my tip. Crappy service? Crappy tip.
I don’t get the part about taking into account how busy the restaurant is in calculating my tip.
In a busy restaurant with a rough calculation, if I get 10% of my server’s time that means that 9 other tables are each getting 10% of the server’s time. So if we all give lower than average tips because of being neglected, the server still does OK.
I prefer to tip more when the restaurant is empty.
Mr Davies,
I believe the practice of tipping is one of the purer forms of reward for work. I.E., generally the harder a Server works the greater the reward.
Don’t many wish their compensation was more commensurate with the amount of work required?
However, according to dictionary . com:
tip3 [tip] Show IPA noun, verb, tipped, tip·ping.
noun
1. a small present of money given directly to someone for performing a service; gratuity: He gave the waiter a dollar as a tip.
It’s only been through urging, pushing, begging, implied shame, etc. that it’s come to pass that 20% is considered “a small present of money”!
As you said in your example the Server is tipped multiple times for the same “on-the-clock” time. If only half of them leave ANY tip, the Server is Well-Compensated, not given “a small present”.
I started posting on this thread January 13th with a question.
Since reading the many posts, especially those by MamasNotHappy,
I’ve come to the conclusion that most of us have been duped into tipping too much… WAY TOO MUCH!
I remember when tipping 8-10% was considered appropriate.
DonJ:
“I remember when tipping 8-10% was considered appropriate.”
When and where was that?
According to standard etiquette books, it was no later than the 1940s. The reason for the change in the early 1950s was a proliferation of restaurants where a high level of service was expected at lower prices than before.
The 1960s in California.
I’m not sure where you’re getting your information saying the 1950s, but according to my own memory and a few sources I was able to find that touched upon the history of tipping, after decades at 10%, 15% became common in the 1970s, with another rise in 2000 to 20%.
DonJ:
“I’m not sure where you’re getting your information saying the 1950s”
Emily Post’s standard etiquette books. Editions through the 1940s said 10%. Starting in the 1950s they said 15%.
“another rise in 2000 to 20%”
Only because servers started saying so and some people started to comply. I’ve never heard a logically defensible reason for the increase. Some 20% proponents like to justify it as a cost of living increase, which of course is ridiculous because the cost of living increase is built into the menu prices increases due to inflation.
The latest Emily Post edition, as well as the latest editions of other standard etiquette books such as Lelita Baldridge and Miss Manners (Judith Martin), all say 15 – 20%, with the explanation that 15% is the basic standard and 20% is for additional things such as going above and beyond standard service.
FWIW, Miss Manners is also keen to point out that tipping is a dysfunctional system, but even so she does not advocate either not tipping or undertipping.
Of course, no one is required to accept standard etiquette books as an authority, but in that case, there is no reason to accept anything or anyone else as an authority on it, either.
“Clean up after yourselves as much as possible”?!?!? Yes, I’ll come eat at your restaurant, pay you at least a 20% tip even if you provide shitty service, because you might be having a bad day, then I’ll clean up after myself. Get real. I worked as a server and bartender for years during college and I CHOSE to work for less than minimum wage because I knew the potential for making good $ was there IF I did a good job. I’d love to see what would happen if I gave a client shitty service today on a project I was working on then told them it was because I was “really busy” or “having a bad day.” LMAO.
Alexis,
Will you marry me? Well said.
So your marriage will be based on a mutual, inexplicably irate hatred of servers? That’s sure to last many decades.
I’m sure poi would give his new wife a small ‘tip’ on their honeymoon too.
Quit being bitter. It’s a tip, not an obligation.
This was the most laughable statement of the article. Anyone who has ever done any study on etiquette, worked at an actual upscale restaurant or country club or dined at an upscale establishment would know you never assist with clean up. It is the servers job to pay attention and notice the cues to remove a dish or refill a drink.
You can make any excuse you want to defend a server for whatever reason you see fit, however if your idea of fine dining is Olive Garden, your opinion has no bearing with me. The level of service and dining etiquette has greatly declined, and as the standards have lowered the “acceptable” tip rate has increased. The server should be aware of what type of restaurant they are in and what details of the job are. Clearing a table and preparing it for the next customer is the establishments responsibility, not the customers.
When service is slow and wait staff are standing, but yours is working hard on several tables, tip like they gave you good service. Stop on the way out and ask for the manager. Tell the manager you appreciated your wait staff, but that he had several who could have lent a hand and did not making your service slower than you like or expected in a “fine establishment like yours”. I find a nice word with the manager will let him know a potential issue. If the service is poor becuase your wait staff is one of the standing arounders, have a nice word with the manger on the way out also, after leaving a small tip. That will also alert the manager to a potential problem. Nice article. My daughter worked here way through college and up to CFO of a restaurant chain. I always tip 20% for good service and a pleasant demeanor, even in the face of adversity.
While now retired, when we were still working we ate out frequently from mid to upscale. Always tipped at least 20%. These are people working for themselves and family, while getting screwed by min wage laws. Further, some places do not even pay them between lunch and dinner service times. If we received bad service more than once, we did not return. We developed favorite places and favorite wait staff, which we requested at the door. While hardly a chatty person, leaving that to my gregarious wife, we frequently became friends with the service personnel and invariably got great service. I believe what really set us apart: we included the wine service in the 20%, even tho many establishments really mark up alcohol – but that is part of the tacit deal when you eat out.
For the above complainers, when the price of the food goes up, which makes your tip more expensive, that is because the general cost of living has gone up, including for the wait staff.
For you real El / La Cheapo(a)s, do us all a favor and go to a self serve place, so you do not give the clientele a bad reflection. I understand the golden arches have good fries.
Walter,
This is the worst attempted rebuttle I have ever read.
P.S. Applebee’s is not upscale
I don’t think you understood the complaint about tip percentage. As the price of food has gone up, the “expected” tip percentage has gone up as well. I remember when 10% was considered a standard tip. Now it seems to be 20% and edging up to 25% on top of increased food totals.
It is amazing how the percent for a ‘proper’ tip over the years keeps escalating higher and higher, along with the higher costs of the meals, which makes the tip amounts go up even faster. It is also amazing that ex-servers always give us ‘guidelines’ on how we should all be great tippers. I for one do not like how the restaurant business has taken its cost of paying its workers, and slowly pushed it off onto the customers to figure out, and making the customers the bad guys if the server feels he (or she) was not paid enough. In many other countries, tip percentages are lower than the USA; some countries have no tipping; their wages are paid by the restaurant.
As for the comment that if the service was bad, we should consider if maybe the server was having a bad day, and still leave a good tip to encourage them?? Frankly all that does in most cases is have them realize they do not need to do a good job to get a good tip, and when they do a good job, they will wonder why they did not get even more.
As far as the server sharing their tips with all the others, I do not have the time nor the patience to keep watch on how everyone does to calculate a tip at the end. The server is the main person the customer is interfacing with, and basically that server’s attitude and work performance is affecting the money for all the others that they have to share it with. The server can not avoid someone who is a bad tipper, but if the server is doing a bad job, and the tip is reduced as a result of it, it is the server’s fault for everyone else getting a share of a smaller tip. The server needs to do the best job possible, since so many others are dependent upon the server.
Well said Mark!
It seems like there is a conspiracy by current and former wait staff to increase the percentage of tip that is expected. As former waiter, I am annoyed by the poor service encountered at upscale casual places as well as some of the poorer “fine dining” establishments. My current pet peeve : servers who touch my glass near the rim. Servers lift the glass by the bottom not the top. I’ve done your job and have a very good idea where your hands have been! ( this sloppy behavior cuts your tip by 30% with me)
Thank you. You nailed it. I am generous to a fault when it comes to servers. Oh wait, I guess I am not since I am not rounding up and covering the janitor’s cut.
I agree Mark. The server’s wage is not my concern that’s their concern. If they don’t care enough to provide good service then that means they shouldn’t care if the make less…it’s their choice not mine.
Tip percentages rise as cost of living rises. I wouldn’t have a problem if the whole country had a restaurant revolution and servers were paid a solid hourly wage (which should be more than min wage) and tipping was taken away, but that’s not happening. These people get paid 2 bucks an hour and people do these jobs because they are flexible around school, kids, or a second job! It is disrespectful when people sit at a table for 1hour + and are taken care of by someone and they aren’t compensated. 20% is a fair standard tip. I don’t know why you “20% tippers” are complaining about because this article is only talking to the 17% and lower tippers.
Abcd:
“Tip percentages rise as cost of living rises.”
Tips already rise as cost of living rises because menu prices rise with the cost of living. As menu prices go up, a 15% tip goes up with them.
What kind of delusional math makes you think tip *percentages* need to rise too, just to keep up with cost of living increases?
How long until you say tips should be 100%, just to keep up with cost of living increases?
— Former waiter
Agreed. If you’re tipping a standard 20 percent what’s the deal? That’s all we’re trying to get across here.
15% is a standard tip.
For good service.
Percentage increases correspond with tax demand. IRS assumes the wait staff is making this much over their pay and so demands them to pay tax on the hourly wage plus the anticipated tip.
It is not the waitress’ fault they are not paid minimum wage–so even if you are aggrieved at the proprietor for not paying sufficiently, why take it out on the wait staff? Again, the author did not suggest pay the full tip for a bad server–no tip at all may go unnoticed, however a smaller tip would be noticed.
And you noticed former wait staff write these kinds of articles? Why not? If she was currently wait staff you would minimize the article because of that. If she never had served as a wait staff you’d say, “What do you know?”
The golden rule “treat others the way you would like to be treated” (which includes giving you the benefit of the doubt when things don’t go well) is a great way to live.
Just because someone may not receive extra compensation in their job for doing well or just because you may be treated badly by your boss–does that mean one should treat others the same way? Yes it’s a hard world. Yes, people face difficult times and yes, people may not be given slack. But why be someone who does what everyone else does? Why not treat people kindly rather than the way they may even deserve? Try it, I doubt if it will kill you and you might even feel good about the results!
20%? Seriously? Who’s employing the wait staff, the establishment or the customer? And if the customer is expected to pay the wait staff’s wages, why am I not afforded a service agreement before the transaction? While I believe that wait staff should be paid the prevailing >standard< minimum wage, I don't believe the primary cost should be transferred to the customer. Am I not paying a TIP, vs a WAGE?
In the US restaurants have always been this way. If you think tipping is stupid then don’t go out. If for any reason waitstaff were to be paid differently (which it is not happening so quit talking about it) the price would be set 20% higher. Quit your bitching lowlifes and eat at mcdonalds. Your not gonna start a revolution. seriously
“If for any reason waitstaff were to be paid differently (which it is not happening so quit talking about it) the price would be set 20% higher.”
HA! HAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!
Oh wait, you’re serious, aren’t you?
I live in a state where it is LAW that servers are paid at least standard minimum wage, despite being tipped, and most restaurant prices are NO MORE than they are in any of the MANY other states I’ve been to where this is not the case! How about YOU stop bitching at the customer and start bitching at the EMPLOYER to pay their employees a fair wage?!
It’s the EMPLOYER’S responsibility to pay their employees, NOT the customer’s!
If you order a $100 bottle of wine and tip 20%–$20
If you order a $20 bottle of wine and tip 20%–$4
The server has done the same amount of work for both but the tip is $16 difference.
We as customers are being sucked in to pay the wages that the restaurant owners should be paying. Maybe that is why so many restaurants do not last more than 5 years as successful businesses do.
Vince:
That’s true, but the restaurant makes a lot more profit on the $100 bottle of wine, too. Do you compain about the menu price of the bottle, and try to negotiage the price down? If not, why not, if you tip the waiter less on that bottle?
If you order a $100 bottle of wine, about $50 of that is profit for the restuarant.
If you order a $20 bottle of wine, about $10 of that is profit for the restaurant.
Sure, the restuarant probably stored the $100 bottle longer than they stored the $20 bottle. But they didn’t pay anything like the $40 to store it a while longer.
Here’s a solution you could try: Ask the restaurant about their “corkage fee”. That means what they charge to serve the wine if you bring your own wine. At most restaurants, on a bottle that sells for $100 in the restaurant, you’ll pay a lot less than $120 for the wine at retail price plus the corkage fee plus the tip on the corkage fee. Let’s compare:
Buy the wine at restaurant:
$100 for the bottle
$15 for the tip
$115 total
Bring the wine with you:
$50 for the bottle at retail
$20 corkage fee
$3 (15%) tip on the corkage fee
$73 total
Be sure to call the restaurant and ask about corkage policy & fee before bringing in the wine. Some restaurants are very reasonable about corkage (you may find some good restaurants that charge only $10, or don’t charge at all), while others are so ridiculous it isn’t worth it.
Lastly — if you do choose to tip the waiter less on the $100 bottle of wine, please remember that the IRS always assumes you’re tipping on the full $100, and will audit and fine the waiter accordingly. If you tip only, say, $3 on a $100 bottle, the waiter will probably have to pay more in federal tax than their share of that $3 tip after tipouts.
Just because you hate your job at Black Lobster don’t come after this guy. You bring food from A to B. 20% is plenty. Learn to read and try to get your GED…then some day (if you save all your tips after you have to pay the janitor, bus boys, dishwashers, and host) you may be able to go to community college and get a job. But, alas, then you don’t get to have the flexible schedule, party all night, and have a wad of untraceable cash. Additionally, when you outperform you peers and expectations…..you get the same amount no matter what. I tip 20% but I can’t believe what I am reading. You shuffle plates and fill water,( oh wait, bus boy does that) and are pissed at what you get paid? Gimme a break
I waited tables all through college and nearly all the other servers either had a bachelor degree or were in the process of obtaining one. The job is more than bringing food from A to B. they have arrived hours before or stay after getting paid 2 dollars an hour to prep work in the kitchen and breakdown and clean the restaurant at close. They are also doing food prep in the kitchen, polishing glasses and silverware, restocking beverages and sauces etc. all the while talking with customers, taking orders with numerous modifications, having knowledge of food and beverage pairings, and prioritizing guests needs all done efficiently! I am now a registered nurse and have been told by countless management that they LOVE hiring prior servers because of their work ethic, efficiency, and ability to deal with the general public. As far as the tipping busters and bartenders and what not…you give these people a percentage of your overall sales for the shift. If the bill is $100 bucks you can garantee $3-5 will be taken from the server at the end of the shift rather the customer tipped $0!!
I tip 20% AND I waited tables to put myself though school. But give me a break – the job IS just bringing food to the table and keeping the beverages refilled. At least, that’s the only part the customer should care about and is paying for. I realize employers make their servers roll silverware and bus tables and whatever else but that’s the restaurant owners putting those jobs on the servers, rather than hiring someone to do that so the servers can focus on food prep. The only thing I consider is whether the server did a decent job taking my order, getting it right, keeping the water glass full and getting me my food promptly.
Plus, don’t get me started on the attitude I get from so many servers, especially at chain restaurants. I don’t expect my server to provide me with a “dining experience” but I do expect a reasonably decent attitude PLUS getting the order right. I had dinner at a well known chain restaurant over the weekend and the server, who was reasonably pleasant, screwed up the order in about 4 different ways. Sure, she offered to make it right after the food was delivered but when the food is there and my date is already digging in, I don’t have time for them to re-make my steak and sides when we have to be at a movie in an hour and I’ve done my part by leaving a reasonable amount of time for me to eat. Plus, for god’s sake, write the order down. If I see a server taking an order without notes, and its wrong, there’s no excuse. Write it down.
I note this article glosses over what to do when you get bad service. Wait, I’m still supposed to tip something, because that will send a message? Its not my job to explain good service to a server, nor is it my problem if the kitchen is overly busy or the restaurant is crowded. Instead, I’ll speak to the manager and inform him why the service was substandard and if he’s smart, he’ll comp my meal, if he ever wants my business again. While I understand that sometimes, things are out of a server’s control, the server is part of a team and that team is supposed to be operating efficiently – consider a basketball team where the point guard keeps getting called for travelling- does that team deserve to win ? Same concept for restaurants. Hire good people, pay them fairly and train them. Failing to do so is the restaurants fault, not that of the patrons.
Have you ever worked in a restaurant before? You know before you were handed all your money from your parents and had to work hard before you got a career? ……… I didn’t think so lol but thanks for tipping a standard 20 percent. Kudos there.
Wow, poi, you really have a prejudicial view toward wait staff! You are making some huge assumptions. In this economy I know more than a few wait staff with BA & BS degrees!
You are making quite a few assumptions here that are completely unfounded. Furthermore, I know quite a few single moms who cannot go to school because 1) they can’t afford it, 2) they need to take all of the shifts they can because they need the money–and don’t go off on them being single because they had children out of wedlock–many had jerk husbands who left them.
Quit being so judgmental here! Can’t you just accept the fact that 20% tips are appropriate, that sometimes it’s just good manners to treat people even better than they deserve–and that extra $1-$5 probably doesn’t hurt your pocket book because, after all, you’re smarter, better educated and so should be making a lot more money than wait staff, right?
And, again, the author no longer works as a waitress–but as someone who appreciates the job from first-hand experience. She obviously did get her education–she writes well enough–but she remembers what it was like. Respect her experience as something you have none of.
Many servers are using this job to put themselves through school and many are finding this job to be more reliable than the one they went to school for and lost do to downsizing. The reason the chef isn’t getting a cut of the tip is because he went to school for the Culinary Arts and hopefully makes much more than $2.17 an hour. Out of your 15 – 20% tip a server has to claim 6% of their gross food sales per week on their taxes so they don’t just walk out each night with all that untracable cash. It’s not like that at all.
At least with all this negative discussion, this artical may shed some light on the subject and the people who have no clue … naw … wishful thinking! The folks who chose to act with proper manners & etiquette always will no matter the situation and those that were never properly home trained will always just be out for themselves … cheapskates and un-trainable!
In the Pacific NW states of Washington and Oregon, all servers are paid the regular minimum wage and the service here is typically poor and if you’re lucky you may get a smirk, but never a smile. I’ve been to other states where they make this reduced wage and they really hustle for their tips, which I’m happy to pay.
What kind of job do you have may I ask? Ever work for tips?
I have worked for tips as a caddy from a small course in Minneapolis all the way to Pebble Beach. I am now a Financial Planner. I take good care of servers. However, I found this article insulting and an obvious attempt by this writer to increase the tips of everyone out there. round up to nearest 10? hahah. So a $61 bill goes to $70, then she wants an additional 20%-25% on that? Sorry, bringing food isn’t that hard.
The “round up to the nearest $10” is for calculating the tip! Nobody is suggesting that you pay that amount and then add 20%. The $61 bill you mentioned would become $75 after a $14 (20% of $70) tip. this is about 23%.
Also, nobody is saying “give over 20% because of busboys and bartenders”. The point is that some of the 20% may go to others making the $14 above “just to bring my food” actually less as others get a bit of it.
It’s funny that you keep insisting that waiting tables is easy when you’ve never done it.
Funny how you say you “take good care of servers”, yet you fill your posts with gross insults en masse against servers you’ve never met. Something bothering you, Bubby?
I know one thing, I’m glad you are not MY financial planner!!!
Great, Minneapolis… You are giving my hometown a bad rap. I don’t care if you tip 1, 10, 20, or 10,000 dollars, if you don’t treat people with dignity and respect you aren’t going to get anywhere in life Poi. Good thing you found a career as a fuckin’ bean counter. I’m glad your boss can see that you belong in a position that limits your dealings with other human beings. Asshole.
Here’s a tip: do a little research on what a financial planner is before insulting one. Also, just spend a few minutes contemplating the irony of having a snide, holier-than-thou attitude toward someone because you think that person is being snide and holier-than-thou…
It is not my fault that the wait staff is underpaid. I do tip, and I tip well. I put myself through college as a waitress AND I grew up working in a family restaurant. I also have a son who is a waiter, still it is not my job to pay your wages through tips. A tip is for service rendered. PERIOD. If you are having a bad day and take it out on me and your service to me, I’m not tipping. I have seldomed not tipped in my life, but trust me, you need to hold up your end of the bargain too. Wait on your customers with a smile and not a snarl, don’t play up to the woman or the man thinking you’ll get a bigger tip, and do your job. I guarantee as a teacher if I take my bad day out on your child you’re on the phone to the principal…don’t take your bad day out on the customer and expect a thank you! A tip is that. A thank you…the restaurant pays your wage, not me. As for buffets, if you do nothing for me as a customer you’ll get very little. 10% is plenty for an inital drink.
I have to agree with Jane. All of my friends/roommates that were wait staff in college made a killing compared to my job where I got paid slightly over minimum wage (computer lab). I still made it through college. I guess the real question I have to ask is, if waiting is so difficult and thankless, why do it? If you love what you do then money shouldn’t matter. If it’s all about the money then admit it.
After reading these types of articles, I realize that I don’t really care for the pretentious rules of “Waiting”. I’ll probably eat out less to avoid this bs, thus leading to less tax revenue for the city which in turn will probably lead to more stress on the restaurant to cover higher taxes, which will in turn will put waiters out of jobs. In other words, when you tell folks to eat at McDonalds when they don’t tip, be careful what you ask for. You’ll drive folks like me that can afford tips away. And yes I am now committed to being a lousy tipper ( I wasn’t before, but am now enlightened)!
Another genius. In Canada and Europe, 15-18% is just added on for service. Wouldn’t you rather have the choice to leave a tip? Service agreement? The restaurant wants return business and has a vested interest in having good servers.
My boss doesn’t reward me when I’m having a bad day. One tips for good service. If they’re having a bad day, they shouldn’t neglect those that might tip — they should be professional enough to put their own issues aside and do their job well — better way to get tips.
The point was to leave them at least a small tip rather than nothing for poor service; not to tip the same as for great service. The point, basically, of the whole article was that no, it isn’t that “one tips for good service” but that tipping is basic manners, and that “if you’re going to eat out, an adequate tip is a standard part of the bill.”
Of course everyone should always try to be professional at work and not let personal issues get in the way (OR work-related issues for that matter, such as rude customers). But do you think they aren’t already trying? Are they really not already aware of the direct ratio between their service and their tips?
Suggesting that they’re having a bad day isn’t an excuse for poor service. It’s merely asking to remember that servers are people too, and unfortunately things like bad days and being short-staffed, etc., aren’t always as under control as it would be ideally.
If you don’t leave a good tip she will spit in your food.
Uhhhh…you don’t tip her until after you’ve eaten there buddy.
I absolutely believe in a good tip. For one, I am “asking” someone else to serve me, which in and of itself is a major convenience. Most certainly worth paying for. Secondly, I am aware of the low pay a server is paid, and that a huge majority of his/her pay is determined by the combined-tips amount. Thirdly, I have tried to carry 1 plate, 1 side dish (salad, e.g.), 1 drink, and have dang near broke an arm, leg, and of course, every dish in my hand…and this just on a walk that spanned less than twelve feet. Kudos to anyone who is able to balance so effectively.
Lastly, and this I consider somewhat–not too high a level, though–a selfish motive, is the whole “next time I return, he/she/they will remember me, and make magic happen” : ) But this is such a small part of why I tip in such a manner. That extra $2 I add to the “regular” tip, in my opinion, means TONS more to the server than it would mean to me, and, besides, it was earned, so how fair would it be to hold it? : )
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