When we go out to eat, my husband always asks, “How much should I tip?” It seems as though this flexible figure stymies many patrons, especially when the service is above average or far less than stellar.
As a former waitress and hostess, I can honestly say that dealing with the hungry public can be challenging and exhausting, and that servers deserve far more than the reduced minimum wage plus tips the government says they’re worth. With more and more people seeking second jobs or temp work to boost their incomes, this issue is more important now than in previous years.
How do you determine how much to tip?
Here are a few basic guidelines to help you out:
Tipping Guide for Good and Bad Service
- The general rule of thumb (for me) is to round the bill up to the nearest $10, and leave 20%. This is easy to calculate, and it rewards servers for good service. I know many people claim 15% is adequate, but keep in mind that your server is making just over $2 an hour without tips to run him- or herself ragged. Go ahead and splurge for the 20%. You’ll make your server feel good, and you’ll get great service when you return to the restaurant.
- If you receive poor service, don’t leave without providing a tip. Believe me, a $1 tip will be noticed much more than no tip, since your server may think you just forgot. Before you leave a lower tip, however, try to take into consideration the staffing and patron level in the restaurant, and remember that your server may just be having a bad day. Leaving a pleasant note of encouragement, or a decent tip, may be enough to turn their day around.
- Include a kind word and a smile with every tip and try to clean up after yourself as much as possible. If my kids leave food on the floor or sticky messes on the table, I ask for a dustpan or a wet cloth to return the table to its condition prior to our arrival. You never know if your server will turn out to be your next door neighbor, a single mom, a volunteer firefighter, or your child’s teacher, so treating them with kindness and respect is a required part of every tip.
- If you receive truly awful service, talk to your server. If the service doesn’t improve after communicating your needs and failed expectations, then ask to speak to a manager. Never go straight to the boss with your complaints when there’s a possibility of rectifying the situation one-on-one.
- Don’t skimp on tips in order to save money! If you can’t afford to tip adequately, choose someplace less expensive or opt for an establishment where you’ll serve yourself.
- If your server only brings your drinks, or the food is served buffet-style, it’s appropriate to leave a lesser tip, but 10-15% still applies.
- If your chosen establishment includes a bartender, hostess, bus boy, or other additional serving staff, keep in mind that your server will probably have to share tips with these other members of the wait staff, as well. In this case, it’s best not to tip solely on the performance of one staff member.
While it’s important to live frugally and pinch pennies when possible, tipping is not an area in which you should be trimming your budget. If you’re going to eat out, an adequate tip is a standard part of the bill.
Do you agree? How do you determine what to tip for good or bad service? You may also want to hear other people’s opinions on tipping, as we’ve discussed this topic before both here and here.
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I take the amount of the check (including tax), calculate 20% then round up to the next whole dollar, with a $3 minimum for all tipping, unless (in a very rare occasion) the server was just awful, sometimes even more.
Most servers do a good job and should be compensated for it. Too many people are poor tippers, because they can get away with being cheap. But that’s not a moral way to deal with other people.
This article is hilarious. “just round up to the nearest $100 and take 20% of that…..it is a really easy way to do it….”. Really? Lady, you bring food back and forth. You say everything is “really good”. You have to memorize both specials every day. I take the total AFTER tax and leave 20%, and breakfast servers get 30% since it is so inexpnsive, but come on. “We may have to pay our busboys and dishwashers, blobbety blah blah blah….”. You know who should be tipped for a killer meal? The CHEF. If you don’t like what you do, get off the pipe and get an education and real job. You think you get “stiffed”. Try living in the real world with a fixed salary and outperforming your peers and getting no “tip”. Tis article is pathetic. I give 20% all day, but don’t tell me to pay for the janitors and busboys too….they can go learn to read as well
She said the nearest $10, not the nearest $100. Perhaps the awareness of this will help you phrase your response in a less deranged, more human fashion.
Funniest exchange EVER. “less deranged, more human fashion”–I’m totally ganking that.
The anger you seem to portray in this statement is insane. Not only did you misquote the article, but you fail to understand that many people who are servers are doing that job because they are working up to something greater. I’m a full time college student and serving is my way of paying the bills so I can get a degree and hopefully a more steady job. Don’t act so superior.
John:
You seem to be an expert on that line of work. Tell me, how long do your kneepads last before they wear out and need to be replaced?
If everyone got a “real” job, there would be no restaurants. Any job is a real job. What if you convinced your garbage pickup trucks that the people that worked for them needed a “real” job?
Hahhahah ignorance is hilarious. Just like below, most servers ARE going to school and working full time and need help making it along the way. And hey, if everyone stopped waiting tables and got a career, who would serve you, your highness?
Just so you know the CHEF makes a different wage then servers and it’s usually very good. I too am going to school, am a single mother of 3 girls and working as a server. We do tip out the food runners and busboys regardless if you tip so sometimes we end up paying out of our pockets if we get “stiffed”. Please don’t think you are better than anyone else because it makes you sound stupid 🙂
Wow. That’s all I can say. Many servers are putting themselves through school. Many are single moms. And they have to do more than memorize specials and bring you your food. They have to clean the restaurant, roll silverware and basically help out wherever they might be needed when they are not waiting tables. When the restaurant is slow and they have no tables, they are making $2 an hour. Your comments are rude. And you say “Try living in the real world with a fixed salary and outperforming your peers and getting no “tip”.” Seriously? What exactly is the real world? Pushing paper behind a desk while being overpaid to sit on your ass and have a snarky attitude they way you do? Wow.
Very ANGRY, aren’t we? Lol
Congratulations on the ignorance-of-the-year award!
I tip very well. Reason? I’ve been there. You say “get an education and a fixed income with no reliance on tips”. Guess what? Education isn’t free. I did get my education and have a fixed income now, but I had to work a couple different jobs to put myself through school, including one tip-reliant position. Most people working for tips are not looking at it as a career, it’s simply to pay the bills while you build yourself up with the education you clearly advocate. I was in Wal-Mart today and had to wait 20 minutes for someone to take the security tag off an item I bought. The cashier was stunned at how patient I was. Reason? Three years spent as a Wal-Mart cashier while in school. I’ll never be a jerk to any cashier or customer service rep, ever.
Maybe you came from a wealthy family and could just get an education with no problem, but a lot of people in this country are both full-time students AND working a 40 hour work week (or more). Instead of the derogatory and demeaning garbage you posted, try showing some respect.
So Sean, You advocate that all of us should be door mats because we have worked in the service industry? Just because I have had a similar job doesn’t mean I am going to put up with poor service. If you want to wait patiently for 20 minutes for someone to remove a security tag, I guess that is your business. I would have politely asked that it be removed from my bill and left without it. I really don’t understand the attitude of solidarity when others in service positions are not treating the customer well.
Isn’t every job just a holding spot until we find something better? Those who stay in a job for a while do so because either they like it or they are not qualified to do something different. All jobs are an end to a means.
If you take a tip related job because it is the best you can do or you like that kind of work that’s fine. Just don’t bore me with you problems of how tough it is. Do your job collect whatever tips you get, do whatever tip out is needed and if at the end of the day you don’t like the outcome move on. Don’t expect me to care about your troubles in life, everyone’s got their own.
Like should I get the yellow 911 or the white one…
Really, Poi? Did you even read the article? The author is no longer working as a waitress so she doesn’t need to “get off the pipe and get an education and real job”–c’mon, did you even read the title (“Tipping Guide…from an Ex-Waitress”)? Others have pointed out the misquote of $100 vs. $10, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you held the “0” key too long. Furthermore, I’ve never worked in food service, but I’ve seen how abused, mistreated, and taken for granted these servers are. She doesn’t just take food back and forth. (S)he is the server, the customer service department, communications officer between you and the cook, in some restaurants (s)he also buses the tables and serves as hostess/host/greeter, public relations officer, and (s)he has to do it all balancing some very heavy trays of very hot food/drink, smile at you when you are obviously rude and arrogantly treating him/her as an inferior. You couldn’t pay me enough money to take that job! Hats off to all of the waiters, waitresses, and server’s of the world!
How about the servers that are working through college or servers like me who have a full time “real” job, but still wait tables to supplement my income. Or how about the people who have college degrees, but because the job market is so terrible out there, that they have to wait tables to put food on the table for their families. Or even the fact that right now, if you find a decent serving job, you can be paid more than in a “real” job?
Maybe you are the one who needs to learn to read ($100 vs. $10) or count. I worked my way through medical school as a waiter. I treated people with respect and expected the same in return. Your comments are pathetic and, judging from your written English, you are not very well educated. Maybe you should get a job as a bus boy.
Wow you really have no clue. Does your entire restaurant experience ONLY depends on the food? Maybe you should go eat in the kitchen. A well attended meal completely heightens one’s enjoyment of a meal. A very good server is one who is attentive, keeps your glass full, offers a beverage at the right time, stays away when you are deep in conversation, brings correct addons for your meal without being asked, clears the correct plates at the right time, doesn’t rush the meal, and brings your check at the right time. All of this while being friendly but not intrusive with you and several other other tables, not to mention getting the kitchen staff and bus staff to cooperate at the same time. You, sir, have no idea what the real world is. Waiting tables and working a cash register should be a requirement for every self-important pompous donkey like yourself. I’ve done both and fast food. I’m now well educated and credentialed. My former life of working hard for my money prepared me very well to appreciate the service of others and when dining out with others, my respect of those in service is a mark of my compassion and intellegence. If I were at a business meeting with you, your attitude would prevent me from doing any business with you, or perish the thought, hiring you. Arrogance is not a trait I admire.
Every server on the planet should read this…
http://boss.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/10/29/one-hundred-things-restaurant-staffers-should-never-do-part-one/
Now this is obviously written for high end restaurants, but the same general rules apply, even for the less affluent establishments.
Especially pay attention to rules 8, 12, 13, 21, 25, 32, 35, 36, 46, 49, 50, 51, 53, 73, 77, 77, 77, 77, 77, 80, 88.
I tip well. I start off at 20%, and generally that is what the server gets. I jump up 5% or sometimes even more if the meal is exceptional in every respect. I rarely drop the tip under 20%. I’d say maybe one out of ten times I eat out, they get less than 20%. So I do tip reasonable well.
But I do know when I’m being ignored, I know when I’m being patronized, and I know when the staff is incompetent. I’ve refused to tip anything exactly three times in my life, and the servers should have been fired after those performances. And I know what good service is. I’ve eaten in some of the world’s best restaurants and had some of the best service possible. Capital Grill in Houston, that staff is just superior in every respect. They follow the rules on this list almost perfectly. Their one flaw is perhaps occasionally permitting a wry comment.
“Honey, if I order the homemade ice cream, will you help me eat it?”
“But of course she will, sir.”
I do 20% as a rule, usually rounding up to the nearest ten-dollar mark as the article suggests. Ironically, perhaps, I live in an area (very rural) where most people do ten per cent; so if service is really bad, and I drop down to fifteen per cent or (very rarely) ten, not much of a message is getting across.
That said: I strongly agree that a good tip is part of the cost of dining out, and being friendly to your servers — treating them as hard-working humans, just like yourself — is just simple human decency. Few things are as sad as watching diners at other tables who treat the wait staff as though they were invisible…
I believe that the tip starts at 15% and then goes up depending on the service. Whatever adversities the server faces relative to being employed at the restaurant is not relevant to the customer. If you give good service, you’ll be rewarded. Don’t bother the customer with what’s going on in the restaurant. The customer is “king” and should be treated as one.
Regarding the $2.13 hourly wage for Waitstaff in Texas. This is the base hourly wage an employer must pay someone who received tips; however, if the employees tips plus the $2.13 per hour does not equal minimum wage calculated as an aggregate for the number of hours worked during a pay period, the employer must make up the difference. If an employer hires lousy waitstaff, I do not feel obligated to subsidize the business by tipping more than I believe is adequate for the service provided. In that vein; at at least one restaurant I frequent, I am referred to as a “super tipper” becuase of the generous tips I leave. Those tips are generous because the waitstaff, bartenders, etc. well earn a generous tip. I do not and will never leave a tip prior to being served as I am often asked at some “pay first” resaurants (i.e. some buffets and bbq joints). An tip is EARNED.
Here’s my question: When I go to an establishment that takes my order at a counter and then calls me to pick it up, why is there a tip jar? What are they being paid for if not to take orders? They aren’t “waiting” on me; it’s more like I’m waiting on them. In fact, the cook probably deserves a tip more than the counterperson. Now, if I have a very confusing transaction or ask for extra services, that’s something different. But if they’re being paid to pour a cup of coffee or put some donuts in a bag, I don’t really see why I should be tipping them. I’m not a cheapskate; I know people don’t believe I tip 20% or more if I say I do, but I do. I just don’t understand why a counterperson should get a tip in most cases. And I’ve both waitressed and worked a counter, so I think I know whatof I speak. And I also agree that restaurant/food serving establishments should pay a living wage to all employees and add the cost into the meal prices. I’m sure if people knew they didn’t have to pay a tip on top of their bill and tax, they’d be more likely to pay a little more to avoid that.
The missing piece here is not to blame your server for the quality of the food. If they are doing their job well, they deserve a reasonable tip. Complain about the food to the manager or don’t return, but don’t blame the server for the food.
Geoff,
Depends. If someone ordered medium rare and it arrives well done, the Server SHOULD HAVE had the food prepared over. Same if wrong sides included, etc.
A Customer should get what they order and Servers bear part of the responsibility to make sure that happens.
That depends upon how the server reacts to your complaint about the food. If I get a “too bad” attitude, I am not at all generous. If the server “goes the extra mile” I tip generously, even if the results of thier efforts are not stellar.
If my service is decent I tend to tip 20%. If it is exceptional I go higher. If it is poor but the food is very good and I plan to return I will tip 20% the first time I go. If the poor service is repeated, I tip accordingly and regretfully give up that restaurant. I have only once left the proverbial 1 cent tip. that was 30+ years ago at a restaurant in Fort Lauderdale when I entered there were very few people and I sat in a section with three other occupied tables and waited….and waited. I could see three waitresses standing and talking and occasionally going to a table but none came to mine. I decided to see how long it would take. The answer? Forty five minutes until one waitress came over and told me I was sitting in a closed section (the patrons at the three tables had since left). I spoke clearly and loudly so the patrons sitting elsewhere could hear, “I’ve been here 45 minutes and there were 3 occupied tables here at that time. None of you came to tell me this area was closed nor made any attempt to wait on me at all. I only waited to see how long it would be before one of you finally did your job. any decent manager would have gotten rid of all of you as you stood around talking most of the time, not checking on your customers. Shows what a poor establishment this is.” I then left one penny on the table and walked out. Yeah I was probably a little out of line but was seriously pissed off and not in the best frame of minds.
Forgot to add that they went out of business a few months later. I don’t know about the food as I never went back but I’m sure the lousy service was part of the reason for it failing.
More likely, incompetent owners had run the restaurant into the ground, and the good servers had left long ago, leaving only sloths who didn’t give a rip or who couldn’t get a better job.
My first wait job was at a restaurant where on a busy night it was often impossible to find a steak knife to serve with steak, because the owners were too stingy to replace them as needed. At a place like that, not even the best server in the world can really give good service.
Eliminate tips! Have the establishment set a fair salary and work out who is good and who’s poor. I’d think the owner would be in a much better position to reward & correct as it is in his/her best interest to have happy customers. Reality check > most servous jobs are low skill and folks working them should expect to be compensated as such.
In recent years many establishments have a tip out pool, which is split among the support staff, based on the servers sales. If an appropriate tip is not left, your visit to that restaurant can actually COST the server money as they will have to tip out the house (based on their sales) even though no tip was left for them. Guests can not know if they are dining in such a place as this is an internal policy and not generally posted for the customers review.
In 2013, as before, you are entering into a social contract when you sit and have someone serve you. If i see a cell phone or hear a swear, that’s a big turn off for me, personally..so servers should be on their best behavior as you never know who is sitting in your station. Having some class is never a bad thing!
Knowing the local customs helps (I live near the border of Canada, where 10% seems to be fine as a happy customer, I do notice about half recognize that they are in the US and adjust their tip to the US standard).
Not sure how servers are paid in NZ, like Europe, a tip is included in the bill I’d guess? I have been chased down the street in Europe and give back the €20 bill I left- apologies!
I usually tip 20% and go up or down from there but never less than 15%. I figure the resturant saved me the time of buying the groceries, preparing and cleaning up after the meal. Plus, it was all carried to my table and I only had to get up from the table if I needed to use the restroom. Not too shabby. I definitely cannot enjoy that luxury at home. I use the 4/5/6 rule when it comes to tipping. Round the bill up to the nearest $5 and then divide by 4 for great service, by 5 for good dervice and 6 for anything else. If we have a large group and there are small children, I usually go more. I’ve never owned a resturant nor have I worked at one but I was taught to treat others as I would like to be treated. I once went into an Waffle House with my family and I’ll admit, my expectations were low. Not only was the service exceptional, when my little girl accidentally spilled her plate on the floor the waitress replaced her meal free and wouldn’t let my wife or myself clean up the mess. Needless to say, there was more than 25% sitting on the table when we left. That was close to 20 years ago and I’ve long forgotten if the food was any good but I can still remember the womans name and her generosity toward my family.
I tip all the time regardless of where I am or how the service was. I DO NOT Clean up after myself. (obviously if Ispill something I will clean it) I will stack plates.. that it is all. If they want me to do their job for them they should come do my job for me.. I don’t know what state the writer lives in… $2 for being a waitress? That is insane.. Ours get $5 up here and most of them are very snotty and act like you are bothering them by placing your order. So for waitresses that want to act like little self entitled snots will get exactly 21 cents from me as a tip. Now on the other hand if the waitress is kind, smiling and doesn’t give me any grief.. SURE I will be MORE THEN HAPPY to throw her 25% or more.
15%… plus 5% for excellent service; minus 5% for poor service. 15 percent was the standard twenty years ago… and its inflation proof… its a percentage.
Some of you are heartless. I love tipping, you can really lighten people up tipping good. I tip 40-50% when I go out to eat.
During my 22 years running a corporation in NYC, I always over tipped. Sometimes as much as 30%. I’d even slip the manage a $100 once in a while. Believe me it’s the easiest way to make others feel important and they will remember your name next time you show up for a meal. And they will hold your table even if you are late.
Wow, such diverse opinions. And I agree with the statement “server, not servant.”
Raising six kids, I waited tables as a second job 2-3 nights a week for 15 years in a “nice” restaurant. If the restaurant you’re in is more than one step up from fast food, your server probably tips out: (1) host(ess); (2) bartender; (3) food runner; (4) bus boy/girl. That tipout is NOT a percentage of the tip you leave, rather a percentage of the check total.
Example: $100 check @ 20% = $20 – – wait staff keeps $13-15. But with a 15% tip, the server ends up with only 7-8 bucks, i.e., a 7-8% tip.
I had two pet peeves: (1) Europeans – who darn well knew better – leaving 2%. And because tipout was based on the check total, I actually LOST money on a table like that. (2) People on travel/business who’d order a very nice bottle of wine, appetizers, dinner and dessert – say $75/person – stay 2+ hours, then pay with a corporate credit card – not their money – and leave 10% to “show the company how frugal they were.”
I now dine out 3 nights a week (at least once a week at at Morton’s), and tip 15% for bad service and upwards of 35% for excellent service. Why the 15%? Soft-hearted, I guess – but I also let a manager know I wasn’t happy with the food or service. If the experience was truly bad, I let them know “Bye, you’ll never see me again.”
Ever get your dinner while still only half-way through your salad? Ever think you’re in the desert dying of thirst while waiting for a refill? Servers – ever carry out two-three-four hot/heavy plates to a crowded table and get the “deer in the headlights” look when you ask someone to move a water/wine glass so you can set something down? Ever have a customer “swirl and carefully sample” the house Cab to impress a dinner companion? (Fer cryin’ out loud – it’s an $8 bottle of wine – how good do you think it could possibly taste?)
Generally I start at 10-12 % for the bare minimum of service. Which is bring the food, and take orders quickly and efficiently without any rudeness. If there is a mess up or rudeness I leave nothing. If the server goes above and beyond such as keeping my water filled, and bringing napkins, cutlery, condiments etc. quickly then I tip in the 20-25% range. If the waiter does something truly exceptional and I can tell they are going out of there way to make my meal special I will go 30-35%. It is a highly variable tipping system but it rewards the excellent servers who are good at their jobs.
For places I only go to occasionally: Rate the service on a scale of 1 to 10 then add 10 to get the percent. For places I frequent I usually give them an extra 5% unless over time they have shown to just be subpar.
15% for a buffet where all the server did was drop off a glass of water. You got be kidding. Reminds me of my brother who tips at pizza places or similar places where you order at the counter and they call your name so you can pick up your food. How is that any different than a fast food joint like McDonalds or Burger King…. you don’t tip there.
More if there are bussers hostesses and such. Don’t think so. Yes the server is tipping them. In the case of hostess, the server is tipping them so they get better/more clients (not one person at 6 top) so that they have a higher gross sales and thus higher tips at the same percent. And they tip out bussers so they can handle more tables so that they have a higher gross sales and thus higher tips at the same percent.
The restaurant pays them to take my order, bring me my food and collect the bill. The tip is what I pay for everything else (keeping my water glass full, a good attitude, inside information on the menu, anticipating my needs, some friendly conversation, etc.)
At many restaurants, I would never even consider tipping 20%. Let’s take Buffalo Wild Wings as an example. Same menu every week. Food delivered in a basket, and with paper boats along side of it to eat from. The food is good, always the same…so it’s basically McDonald’s but someone takes your order and delivers it to your table.
There is almost no interaction with wait staff, nothing to discuss on the menu….so the wait staff are glorified order takers and food deliverers. I get that high end restaurants have wait staff sample meals, can explain in detail how the food is prepared and are knowledgeable about wine. But tipping anything close to 20% at a place like BWW seems crazy.
Yes, but what do I do about a bad meal!
If the food is bad talk to the manager and then don’t go back. The food quality is beyond the waitress/waiter’s ability to improve. If they gave good service tip them appropriately.
I would add to make sure to tip the guy or gal who puts together your take out order. I used to do that when I worked in a restaurant, and it can be quite involved, and if you’re stuck doing it you may not make much during that shift. Usually these people are putting together your salads, soups, sauces, and making sure your meal is packaged correctly. I’ve always left about 5%.
Its very interesting how many different views there are on this topic. Myself, I expect good service each time I go out to eat. The main thing for me is a pleasant demeanor during the dining experience. Mistakes happen, sometimes its the wait staff’s fault or the cook’s. However if I see my food come up and the waiter is yakking and letting my food get cold or they make me wait for my check excessively long because they’re not tending to business then I will be less inclined to give a big tip.
The author’s statement that the waiter might be having a bad day is nonsense. A waiter who depends on tips cannot have a bad day and expect a good tip. My expectations when I go out are to have good service, good food and an overall good experience. If the wait staff is “having a bad day” and I have a bad experience I will most certainly show my displeasure via the tip. I have to pay for my meal but I refuse to reward poor service. And yes I do consider the tip pay for services rendered. If in fact a waiter is so dependent on tips for compensation then it behooves them to do their part in the dining out experience. I might go so far as to say continued poor service by a wait staff can not only result in poor tips but in an establishment losing business. If I come off as “cheap” or “too demanding” well, its just my opinion as you all have yours.
Wow, I never realized that it was my duty to make sure my server had a good day and to keep them motivated! I am sick and tired of going out to eat and get this crap that my server deserves 20% for mediocre service. I will tip 20-25% for great service. But I am tired of servers with attitude! Screw them.
Splurge and leave a good tip so you will be remembered next time you return…. not likely. Even when I am a regular at most places the servers rarely remember you except at the exceptional places.
So a good job and get 20% from me but do it half way and you get much less and I probably won’t go back.
First of all, this article is misleading. While the federal government reduces minimum wage for tipped employees, many states still require full wage plus tips. In California, for example, waiters are paid at least $8 per hour (state minimum wage) plus tips. At an average restaurant, an average waiter takes home about $19 per hour.
In the 1970s, the standard tip was 10%. It then became 10-15%, then by the 1990s 15% was standard. Now it’s 20%, after rounding up? Ridiculous. When waiters and waitresses are making twice as much as other similar workers (cashiers, for example) there is no need to tip so much. 15% is plenty. Increase it if the service is excellent, reduce if the service is poor.
I don’t receive tips for my work and I ALWAYS do more than necessary for my clients. So, why should wait staffs get tips? It’s not my function to help their bosses meet the payroll. In some countries tips are not accepted and the service is far better than nearly anywhere in the US. Also, it’s not my role to help waiters feel better about themselves by leving cute little notes and big tips. That’s their own problem. And, it’s their bosses’ role to pay decent salaries.
No, by law, it is your responsibility. What if your boss let you live on half of your tips? Our entire salary and more goes to taxes, so no paycheck. You sir, are plain ignorant. No other way to say it. Ignorant. But now that you have read this, you are informed and if you continue to not tip well, you will need to go to a new restaurant everytime because people like you get a reputation and everyone knows when you come in. In the back, you’ll hear, ‘I ain’t taking him, you take him’ until the least senior server is forced to wait on you. And they know you aren’t tipping. I wonder if it is reflected in the food and drinks you are served? I’d be nervous to return to any restaurant where I stiffed the server.
I don’t receive tips for my work and I ALWAYS do more than necessary for my clients. So, why should wait staffs get tips? It’s not my function to help their bosses meet the payroll. In some countries tips are not ccepted and the service is far better than nearly anywhere in the US. Also, it’s not my role to help waiters feel better about themselves by leving cute little notes and big tips. That’s their own problem. And, it’s their bosses’ role to pay decent salaries.
I can’t find that post you are referring to but full service restaurants have bussers that clear the dirty dishes and cleans the table and resets it. Why are you referring to busser duties? I thought we were talking about servers? You tip the busser when you tip the server, by the way. They get an average of 2% of the bill, 1% to the bar, 1% to the expeditor/runner and 3% to taxes. So, you do tip at least 15%?
Ask for a dustpan and a cloth to clean your own table and leave it at the condition it was before you arrived? For crying out loud…I go out to eat so I don’t have to clean up. What a ridiculous statement from the article writer who seems like they don’t want to do their job!
I can’t find that post you are referring to but full service restaurants have bussers that clear the dirty dishes and cleans the table and resets it. Why are you referring to busser duties? I thought we were talking about servers? You tip the busser when you tip the server, by the way. They get an average of 2% of the bill, 1% to the bar, 1% to the expeditor/runner and 3% to taxes. So, you do tip at least 15%?
Where I live in Washington State not DC, minimum wage is $9.19 an hour.
Plus with their tips they probably make at least $20.00 an hour. Bad service means no tips!
I worked for about a year in a right to work state. I was very briefly a waitress there. My wages were $1 a night. I was expected to be paid entirely on tips. I busted my arse for my customers and sometimes made decent money, other nights I didn’t no matter how hard I worked. Needless to say they had a high turnover of staff. I soon found a less chancy and more reliable job.
For dining out my tip budget is $10 (for me and my wife). That’s my max tip.
For every extra person I’m paying for, the max tip goes up $5.
If the meal cost $15 and I had great service, you just got a 66% tip.
If the meal cost $50 and I had great service, you just got a 20% tip.
It seems ridiculous to me to base my tip off the price of the food, as the two have nothing in common.
$2.00 an hour may be a myth in many places. While some places may allow tips to offset minimum wages other locations require minimum wage no matter what. Not that many decades ago the rule of thumb was about 10% which meant in places like NYC you looked at the tax and tipped that amount. And it applied to sit-down restaurants. Now it seems everyone puts out a tip jar even if no service is actually provided, since it will still get filled with “sympathy” and “guilt” tips, typically the metal change. I have nothing against tipping extra for extra service, but we need to re-educate the general population and get rid of this notion that tipping is required. Instead of adding a mandatory gratuity for only group meals, include it in the menu price in the first place, an everyone will pay for the service. Yes, it means you can’t stiff a person for bad service, but I bet there will be fewer “bad days” for most servers and service will be more even as a result.
Round up to the nearest 10 dollars and then add a 20% tip???? So if the bill is $37, I should just round up to 40 and then give an 8 buck tip… an extra .60 past the 20% of the REAL bill of $37, so no big deal, right? Wrong. It’s my .60, and I’ll decide if you get it or not. I’m sure you wouldn’t want me to round DOWN to $35 and then only tip you 7 bucks, so get out of my wallet!
Miss Autumn,
Then go ahead and round down to $35.00 and leave a $7.00 tip, as a part-time server I would never be upset by that. It’s close enough for me. As a server, it is my honest belief that a guest NEVER, EVER HAS to tip. I have to earn it, by giving the best service that I can to each and every one of my guests, if I do that then the tips will be there whether they are 10%, 15% or 20% tips, it doesn’t really matter to me, so long as each guests leaves our restaurant happy. If you dine with us again, then I have done my job well.
I’m not skimping or cheap…but not only does inflation and low wages affect servers/waitresses – it has affected my paycheck. If I’m not getting the pay to support a 20% tip, I’m not giving a 20% tip. I do however give 15% – and on return trips have still been given adequate and up to superior service. Not to be funny, but a recent news article said that a tipper left a note that stated…”I give God 10%, why should you get 18%?” Lastly, for the cost of eating out and the price of an expensive steak – I can purchase one at a local supermarket and cook it to my liking at home, making this whole argument moot. Just a thought…
Ah, but that was for a large group of people and the restaurant had it listed at the door and on the menus that the gratuity was added for any group of 8 or more people. It was also a minister that wrote that snide little note and got a nasty online backlash for it.
20% is appropriate for fine service in a top flight restaurant, otherwise 15% is fine. The tab has been going up with inflation, so need to up the percentage. Sure the minimum wage for restaurants is lower, but nearly all servers I know make out far better than if they pushed paper in an office or were a barista at Starbucks. Stop whining about the hard work… work is hard, kids! Oh yes, clean up after yourselves….lol…should I also pick up the food too? Clean up is why you share with the busser. Don’t be cheap with him, now. Finally, 10-15% at a buffet? Maybe for a hotel Sunday brunch, but at the local Hometown Buffet? The only good suggestion was to tip a buck for lousy service with attitude.
Why would you tip only 20% in a top flight restaurant? They have an entirely different system of paying out tips. The assistant (not a busser) receives 5% usually. The bartender receives 1% of sales, including the wine. Other people share in the tipshare but it varies, according to the owners. Most fine dining used to be owned privately but corporations are invading even these businesses. These businesses expect their servers to make upwards of 30%.
You still owe 20% in any full service restaurants. It’s full service when you have a waitress. The tip is based on a percentage. The bill is higher in an expensive restaurant and the tip is expected to be higher. In less expensive restaurants, the minimum tip per person should be at least $3 even if you eat nothing. Just sitting there makes you responsible for a minimum tip.
I can’t remember the last time I received poor service. Have I had servers who are having a bad day? Yep. When it seems a server is having a bad day, I make it a point to be a little nicer. It works for me. I also say please and thank you. I ask politely for any extra service I may require. I also understand that sometimes a server may have to talk to another server for some reason that I don’t know about. The same goes for texting. I don’t know why my server is sending a text. Perhaps he/she is telling a child good night, or reassuring someone. It’s no big deal to me. I know what kind of crappy wages these people get, so I made up my mind not to add to what may already be a lousy situation.
There’s also this. I figure that I’m also kind of training some servers to know there are people out there who do appreciate them and who will treat them with courtesy. They’ll remember, and most of them will tak it to heart.
One last comment. The servers where I go regularly seem to have a “lotto” going where I’m concerned. The winner gets to seat me and serve me. And they do it with a smile. So, do I tip? You bet I do. And, if memory serves, the last “bad” server I encountered was over 35 years. Guess I’ve just met a lot of servers who are good at their jobs.
How about the restrauntuers pay their staff a decent wage, so they don’t have to rely on tips? Sure the prices on the menu may go up and the servers may not be so attentive in order to get the tips, but the customer does not have to feel guilty about what tip he/she leaves. Actually this is what they do (or did when I lived there) in the UK and the service was pretty uniformly lousy. So this post is somewhat in jest.
Glad I live in a state where restaurants are required to pay servers the standard minimum wage (which is nearly $9/hour). I tip 20% for excellent service – that’s friendly, prompt, keeping glasses full, dishes off the table, checking in about food/drinks and bringing the check on time. Biggest pet peeve with a child in tow is a slow server who doesn’t bring a check – especially at dinner. The tip starts dropping from 20 down to 15% if I have to entertain my kid after our meal has been consumed while we wait for a check. The tip also drops if we run out of drinks and no one checks in – especially if we haven’t received our meal yet. I will tip below 10% if the service is exceptionally terrible – luckily, this has only happened a couple of times, and since we couldn’t find the server to follow-up with we ended up having to talk to the manager.
Serving is a tough job. A lot of customers don’t tip anything. So I tip 20% for adequate service. When service is above average or exceptional, I will crank it up to 25% or 30%. If the service is truly bad, I go to the manager to let them know what’s going on. But that rarely happens.
People who tip poorly or argue they shouldn’t have to tip have generally never worked in the service profession.
And as for the texting at work thing: Just don’t text where the customers can see you. How hard is it to take three steps in another direction so you’re out of sight?
Chuckles,
Servers and former Servers have posted about the challenges of Serving.
Haven’t seen anyone include that:
Ninety-Nine percent + work indoors! Doesn’t matter how cold or hot it is outside. Or if it is snowing or raining. Try telling a professional fisherman how tough Serving is… Or a gas/oil worker. Or even a factory worker. They are on their feet for a full shift, on concrete floors mostly. Doing work that becomes a monotonous routine. With NO tips.
And when Servers are done with their shifts, they are Done.
I was a computer programmer for many years and for a number of them I was On Call 24 hours a day. Servers may be called off. And they may be asked to come in. Occasionally. During the 1970’s, computers weren’t as reliable. I could count on coming in during the middle of the night at least once a month. And I HAD to. Since I was a salaried professional, there was NO additional compensation.
I hope many are reading mamasnothappy’s posts. Her ENTITLEMENT pleas very strongly support 10 percent tipping with 15 percent for exceptional service.
And when She and others start whining about the cost of living, that affects everyone. Most non-Servers have not had the automatic pay raises that Servers receive when menu prices go up.
Also consider that even beginning Servers receive tips.
My first job in 1965 was working in a truck stop. Fueled trucks and cars, checked under the hood, etc. Outside. One day after adding air to a customer’s tires he handed me a dollar bill. I had no idea how to react! Nothing about tipping had been said when I was hired. No one (not even when 20 degrees below zero in Iowa) had ever offered a tip before. Besides, I was already being paid – minimum wage.
How many older Servers tipped gas station attendants when they were full service?
Serving is a tough job. Compared to? Since a portion of their tips are tax free, smart ones are setting aside part for when they physically can’t Serve. At least they should, because they are not contributing as much to Social Security. Their SS payments will be less – because they pay in less.
Still, begging for tips is good training… For the time they’ll be maneuvering to feed off liberal entitlement programs. Which will be funded by taxpayers, most of whom had their ENTIRE pay taxed.
I WAS mostly open-minded when I first posted.
If you type +f (Control key plus f key at the same time) to bring up a search box in the upper right, type in hawkeye, and find my January 13 post, you can get a feel for my thoughts … THEN
(It will be the sixth post as they aren’t in chronological order.)
When I managed a programming staff in Hawaii many years ago I was paid $56,000 per year. And I knew a woman who Served at a high end restaurant plus tended bar. She was taking home more than I was.
While I didn’t work harder than she did, I was responsible for all of the computer programming at my large employer.
I agree with a lot of what you say and I have a problem with mama. Factoring in items that we all face is not a hardship on servers alone so she needs to stop talking about Gás and baby sitting. We all have these expenses.
Her hate rants really make me want to stiff a waitress and instead of a tip leave her this forum address with mamas posts as an explanation. Mamas sense of entitlement is nauseating (and yes Mama I am using entitlement correctly)
Servers work predominantly at night and sitters are more expensive and harder to find. It’s not just $60 a week, it’s $5 an hour. We don’t get any holidays off, in fact, that is the busiest times usually. Many night workers make more than the day workers. The same is true for servers. 75% of tip employees are women. Surly, I love my job. My guests usually love me and I don’t have any problems with 99% of my guests but if that one fool who pays the check for a large party and gives me ten percent, taking up my station all night, I can go home with less than I came in on.
$1000 check, $100 tip, $20 to the busser, $10 to the bartender, $10 to the expeditor/runner, $15 taxes, $10 gas, $40 babysitter and $9 for parking leaves me with a debt of $14 in debt and I have to make $150 a night takehome pay to pay my bills. Where am I going to get that $164 back from? That’s why I had to work 6-7 shifts a week. Making up for the people that don’t tip or walk out without paying.
I don’t understand this idea of going to the management. I would talk to the manager if I really Liked the joint and was a regular and the service was bad. Normally I would just not return and not tip for the poor service.
If you don’t tell the server that there is a problem, you are at fault. It serves you right if you can’t open your mouth and explain the problem. Maybe you need to improve the quality of the establishments you frequent?
So you are telling me to tip no matter what, even if the waitress sucks, and to not tell the boss if they suck, just talk to them eh? Spoken like a true lazy waiter. I don’t care if you get paid 2 bucks an hour, your problem, not mine. Do your job and be pleasant, 20% tip. Come to my table on your phone, smelling like cigarettes, or just flat out rude? 2 pennies for you and a manager complaint. Period.
Hello, I read these comments with interest, but I don’t believe that I saw an explanation for the low wages for waiter/waitress/bartenders. The Restaurant industry usually pays an industry standard wage (low) with the understanding that they provide an atmosphere for their “self-employed” sub-contractors (servers) to re-coup the balance of the minimum wage by serving the Restaurant’s food to the customers. That is why providing a service that your customer wants to reward with a tip, is so important. (If the Restaurant paid the employees minimum wage, they would pass that expense on to the consumer.) No txting; phone calling; wash your hands after a smoke; smoke one or only a half-y; communicate with a partner when you leave the floor. Make the customer your priority and the gratuity will follow from that customer. Any server can manage to make a minimum wage with tips that are 15% of the bill. More than that is for better than average service, less than that is for less than average service. 20% is the easy way to tip.
I’ve been in the Food Service industry for 20+ years, and unless I win the lottery, I won’t die rich on my earnings. But, I have always loved my job, and can only think of 1 or 2 times that I felt that the tip received did not reflect the service that I provided.
I am low income but I do go out to eat once or twice a month. I do pay 20% or more for a tip. Where I draw the line is when they leave the bill when they bring the food and drinks and then never return. I usually order coffee and when I never get asked if I want a refill I pay less in the tip, it makes me angry when a lot of times you pay $2 or more for that 1 cup of coffee. I do consider how busy they are, I was a waitress/bartender for years and there is no excuse not to return at least once during the meal. I have even tried to get the waitress attention and that doesn’t always work.
I agree that you enter into a social contract when you dine out. The fact of the matter is that the customer is the one who dictates the terms and conditions of that contract, not the server. You probably don’t want to believe that but it’s true. I can go in and have my meal and leave whatever I choose to and I can interpret and grade my dining experience and your performance a myriad of ways using whatever criteria I see fit. You need me more than I need you. I don’t mind cooking for myself and am an excellent cook. Sometimes I don’t feel like it or I just want to try something different. If my dining experiences begin to not make it worth my money than I can gladly feed myself. Then you are out of a customer and that’s worse than getting a crappy tip cuz now you get no tip at all. I tip well when I go out. I hold up my end of the contract if you hold up yours. If you don’t, guess what? I have the power to not leave one red cent and there isn’t one thing you can do about it. So why don’t you start acting a little more gracious towards us and not like we owe you something just because we merely sat at your table?
The restaurants are required to pay minimum wage if the server doesn’t earn enough tips to earn minimum wage. I do not tip based on a percentage of the meal. The tip should be based on the quality of service and nothing else. When I go to an expensive restaurant, the waiter does the exact same job as if I went to a chain restaurant. The waiter does the same amount of work if I order something inexpensive or extremely expensive.
We need the restaurants to pay a realistic wage and tip only when we get exceptional service.
Like many other posters here, I spent years serving through high school, college, and the “getting started” period. The money was very good and the primary reason I continued doing it. I like to think it’s because I’m a people pleaser and have a strong attention to detail, but I really think it’s because I took full responsibility to ensure my diners had all their needs met (sun shining in your eyes? cold by the window? bathrooms are down the hall, around the corner, oh, please follow me: I’ll lead you there!) from the moment they sat down to the moment they left, including continued refills after the check was settled. I was never stiffed and never had any dine-or-dashers. Like my sisters, we found it’s really not that hard of a job if you enjoy it, are a people person, and in tune with your customers’ expectations (so you can exceed them, rather than just meeting them).
Many of you may also not realize this, but there are states (like Minnesota) that require restaurants to pay minimum wage to their servers. The amazing part is that prices weren’t more than the same stores across the border. I totally agree with the prior posters noting that if you don’t like being paid $2.13 an hour, take it up with your employer or your state legislature.
The largest tip I have ever left (and the absolute best dining experience I have ever had) was just north of 50% for a late night meal in Chicago with a very talented server who did all the right things at all the right times in such an effective manner. There were a few hiccups, but he resolved all of them with just the right amount of tact and responsibility. He was one of the few servers I have ever had that I think did a better job than I could or would have.
The poorest tip I ever left (nothing) was at an Outback in Massachusetts, where the server got nothing right, from long delays, to impersonal greetings, to wrong drinks and swiched up salads (our experience ended there), and blamed the mistakes on the *derogatory racial group name* of employees in the kitchen. I IMMEDIATELY walked to the hostess stand and asked to see the manager. I returned to the table and, in front of the server, explained in detail to the manager why we were finished with our meal (no entrees had been served, even though we had already been there over an hour), were leaving, and would not be leaving a tip nor returning to that restaurant. NOTHING at that point could have salvaged the experience or the horrible memories of the evening. It still rankles me to this day!
While I normally leave 18-25%, I will leave less (but only once have I left nothing) if the service is awful, from no refills (ever!, even when requested), to constant mistakes on meal items (how hard is it to double check that my kid’s hamburger has NOTHING on it but burger & bun before serving it?), to servers I see three times during a meal (take my order, present the check, and return to collect payment –>others bring drinks, meals… but the server doesn’t return to ask about refills, make sure the salads were correct, or check on the meal until it’s time to clear the plates… and then leaves the dirty plates on the table while she settles the bill).
The only other issue I have with some of the comments in this is that I don’t see how your employment expenses (child care, taxes) is relevant to your gross wages or validation for me to leave more. When I think of how much people make, I think of it in a gross amount $x per year, rather than ‘only $y per year after driving to work, paying to park, paying the sitter, covering taxes’. I fail to see how the need to cover those expenses is any different than employees in other fields. Many employees’ take-home pay is less than 50% of gross salary, after taxes, insurance, retirement savings, and other deductions… before paying transportation and child care.
My wife gets angry with me every time I do this but I have a tip calculator on my blackberry and I actually calculate a tip as follows. 20% applied on the food + beverage – taxes if I get very good service. If the service was merely adequate then 15%. But I very happily have left mere pennies in cases where the service was terrible. I really do think this sends a clear message that when I evaluate the service and am “rewarding” it with a tip, that I gave them an F.
Example: empty restaurant, grabbing a late lunch with my son as we run from one sporting event to the next. Our waitress decides the afternoon lull social circle of restaurant staff is more important than serving us. She takes our order we don’t see her for 20 minutes. We eat and we wait another 20 minutes to get our bill cause she never came back to the table. We see her 50 feet away chatting with the other wait staff that has no tables because the restaurant is slow. Bill $24.83 for two burgers and sodas. Tip $0.17.
Same here but I normally just use the calculator on one of my 4 iPads.
I completely disagree with Tom I think who claims you should tip 20% no matter what. You want a tip then work for it…that’s why its called a “Gratuity” which is defined as money given for service! Service is the key word here. You want money then exchange service for it. I don’t give a rats ass whether you are having a bad day or don’t want to be there. Don’t take the damn job then. I am getting a bit tired of all these former wait staff who are driving this idea of proper tipping etiquette…how about proper service etiquette?
I worked as a waiter for two years in college and put my stress (finals week, assignments, death of a parent) aside when I went to work. I was fully aware that I worked in the service industry and it was my job to make the experience pleasant for someone else..and that’s what I did…and was rewarded by the generosity of my clients who asked to sit in my section time after time.
Finally, somebody with some sense and a firm grasp on what the word ‘service’ means. I got tired of reading about these former waiters and their sense of entitlement and mistaken notion of their role as an employee in the service industry. What they don’t realize is they aren’t helping their cause at all. In fact, they’re turning people off to them. They all sound like a bunch of spoiled brats who expect you to provide them with a decent living.
I usually leave 10% or 15%, depending on quality of service. The attempt to raise a “standard” tip to 20% is hilarious. As the price of restaurant meals has increased, seemingly every month, so has the value of a percentage of the bill. Any apparent need to tip more “nowadays” has already been solved by inflation.
Everyone has their own opinion in regards to tipping. I respect that. You should be able to do what you want to do. Mine is this:
I will not give any money to any large charity. Don’t know where the money is going. I prefer to give money in the form of tipping. On good servers, I often give 30-40%. My rationale is that food serving is one of the hardest, lowest paying jobs out there. When I give a large tip, it is not considered charity. The waiter/waitress believes they earned it. And they did. My only regret is that I am not wealthy as I would give a lot of money to help change lives if I could. Think about changing your charitable habits and give money to deserving workers rather than giving money to a big charity like Katrina where your money went to buy ice in 6 trucks that drove from New Jersey to Orleans and back to New Jersey cause they couldn’t find anyone to give the ice to. Tip well and live well! You can see the results and you know exactly where your money goes!
The tipping practices this article describes is too high. First of all, every bar/restaurant has an obligation to pay their employees the wage they think they deserve and are worth to the business. Tipping is difficult for many people because we don’t really understand why we are paying part the wage of the people who work there, in addition to often high prices for the food and setting. Really good service gets a 20% tip. Good gets 15%. Bad gets little to none. It is pretty sanctimonious to say if people can’t afford to tip at least 20%, don’t go out at all. More realistic is if you can’t afford to go out often, skip the appetizers, dessert, drinks – all of that decreases the overall value of the check, which in turn diminshes the tip. Okay, we won’t go out at all – and then your employer’s business may not even be able to stay open. We have occasionally tipped more than 20%, but I’m not going to round up the bill amount and tip every wait staff person 20% for whatever level of service they provided. When the staff are not attentive, we sometimes skip dessert even though we planned to order, in part to keep the check lower, which also makes the tip lower. Provide exemplary service at the best place you are able to be employed by, and tips should be as generous as people are able to make them. But if dinner costs $100 (or more), it shouldn’t automatically go up another $20 in tip price, just because you used to have to wait tables for a living and your boss is too cheap to compensate you fairly.
You know, the day was when 15% was considered a normal tip. Considering inflation keeps track with what everyone is making, I don’t understand how, all of a sudden, 20% is supposed to be now considered the baseline. For me, it is not. If I get “normal” service, nothing above and beyond, I typically figure out 15% (not including tax; I don’t tip tax). If they are friendly, engaging, prompt, observant, quick to get rid of empty dishes and fill glasses and periodically ask if we need anything, I’ll easily give 20%. Anyone expecting more than that better shine my shoes, wash my car, and straighten my kids’ teeth.
This is a serious question to the servers here: Do you guys have a specific “script” that you follow? Of course, it will vary, but are there things that you have to say and ask at every table, and even in a certain order? I’ve seen comments here bashing servers for doing that. When I worked in fast food (whether I was a cashier, cook, or a manager), there were specific things I had to say each time I took an order at the register, or every time I engaged with a customer (didn’t matter if it was a complaint or not). My point is there were things I had to say and ask, regardless of whether or not I thought it would annoy some people (and yes, it did annoy some people, including me). I’m just asking everyone to keep an open mind.
A few, but not a large percentage, of restaurants want you to follow a script. Most of them have some information they want you to cover, but they allow you to present it in your own way. I have never had a person complain about when I was using a script, maybe because I was able to make it sound like my own words. But, even if you are using a script and you are not so good at making it your own, only a real boob would complain about that. I have had those servers and I can sympathize with them. I was not always good at it- it took practice and I root for them as they are clearly trying to do something that is a little unnatural to them, but still doing their best. The problem is not you, Rachel. The problem is some people will look for any excuse to complain and you are at the bottom of the totem pole. I suggest you try a little enthusiasm. I happen to love food–maybe that is why I work in restaurants, I like being near my friends. But, when I describe an item I will roll my eyes or rub my stomach and everyone laughs. I will tell my guests what other guests have said about this item. Find out what they are leaning toward tonite, and make a recommendation. I will give you an example. Here is a little presentation that I have been using recently.” And then there is my favorite, the Beef Tederloin, or Filet Mignon. ( Rub belly) This is a 7 ounce filet, wrapped in bacon. It is locally raised and organically grown. Even the bacon. Raised right down the street. No feed lots, no preservatives, no hormones. ( Lick lips ) It is grilled and then accented with a mushroom demiglace. On the plate it is accompanied by mashed potatoes, also organically grown, and my vegetable medley, sauteed with white wine and butter. Now, I know that sounds marvelous, but let me tell you about how my other guests have enjoyed this entree. I have had about 20% of all people say it was the best filet they ever had and not one single person did anything less than rave about it. If you are considering this, I have some wonderful cabernets available by the glass, or bottle, if you are thirsty and even a dessert which would beautifully complement this filet.” I have used a script that I am comfortable with and it creates an image for the guest. It has been wildly successful for me and you can change it up for any item you are trying to describe.
Wow! I’m amazed at some of the comments I’m reading. I worked my way through college (paid my own way – not a penny or dime from anyone) and for the last 15 years worked as a straight commission sales rep for a technology company. To say.. “hey give 20% out of the gate because your suppose to” is an absolute joke. If I come in second in a bid I make $0, period. Therefore, I use a skill set that I developed over the years and implement into my business life. You must make an effort at service ie – smile, be engaging, check on food satisfaction, etc… that’s all personal skills. Frankly, when someone is working hard I take great pleasure in leaving a huge/massive tip… because I know it made them smile and provide a little self-esteem boost for the night. So… for servers out there, smile, be engaging work hard and good things happen. If something bad is going on in your life leave it at the door before you walk into work… we all have to do that on occasion.
I have been a bartender and server for 30 years and I agree with you that no server should expect 20% out of the gate. If they really suck and don’t try ,they shouldn’t be in the business, but I believe that people should start at 10% for a dinner that may not have gone perfectly but the server was trying. Fifteen per cent for a good experience and then go up from there. After all of my experience I should be doing a good job, and I do. But, I usually average out at around 17%. If someone hits me 20% that is a good tip and it happens about one quarter of the time. Sometimes more, but rarely. I have more people that leave a really lousy tip after excellent service than I have people that are conspicuously generous. It happens after each downturn in the economy–people start looking for excuses to not tip and instead of just admitting to themselves that they are strapped for cash and the person at the bottom of the totem pole is going to take it on the chin, they invent a lot of rationalizations why servers are well compensated. I happen to be near the top of the pile as serving jobs go, and I would not work at the jobs that two thirds of servers have.Yes, there are tougher jobs. Yes, there are servers that suck and are dummies. Just like there are guests that are inconsiderate and cheap. Anectdotal experiences of individuals on both sides are not an accurate barometer of what is really happening. If people are against tipping because they don’t believe in it, they should stay home. Tipping is a social contract and if it is not met reasonably, the server can end up paying out his own pocket for the sheer joy of serving someone who will be stiffing them. To turn the tables, so to speak , on the XL pastor who didn’t like the autograt put on her check when she was part of a large party, consider this. The church has worldly obligations to meet and I cannot imagine any parishioner who would dispute that. It is a social contract, unenforceable by law but accepted as necessary.Well, servers have worldly obligation as well. It is a standard social contract.Then, you get some people that will say they don’t agree with tipping- the restaurant should be paying them. OK . Fine. Change it so the restaurant pays us and what do you think is going to happen to your dinner check? The consumer pays one way or the other. If you don’t like the setup, don’t take out your disapproval of the system on a server who has no control over the situation. Boycott the restaurant and then write a letter to the restaurant owner telling them about it. That may change things, it may not. But, crying about the system and taking it out on the server does not make you a social crusader, it makes you a cheap bastard, righteous and hypocritical in picking and choosing which people get a few crumbs when they all should.
Biff McGuzzle:
Wouldn’t it be more intellectually honest, tho’, for the Restaurant to ACTUALLY MAKE the dinner check reflect your ACTUAL COST of dining, taxes and staff wages inclusive? And then have the restaurant observe a legal requirement to pay their staff properly, and deal with poor service as a Disciplinary Matter (which it really ought to be) and rewarding consistently good service as an Incentive (whichit also ought to be)? And to go one step further, and have the restaurant owner responsible for running all aspects of his business, including negotiating exactly what his staff get paid each paycheck, just like all other businesses do?
You see, that is how it works here in New Zealand. It is very transparent and very fair, to everybody. No wait staff starve here, and in the better restaurants some staff make pretty good coin.
What you have happening there in the United States isn’t a social contract at all: it is an abusive employment relationship, and you Yanks really ought to fix that.
Why trick your customers into thinking they are getting a $10 steak when it’s actually supposed to be a $12 steak plus 15% tax, except we’re hoping you forget you’ll be leaving a $3 tip for that after you round up — until, of course, it comes time to settle the bill? That’s just bollix! Bollix to that!
Why should customers be responsible for staff evaluation, reward, and discipline? — which is what tipping actually is, when you think about it carefully. If I wanted to be responsible for those sorts of things, I would hire my own servants and have them do things my way Or Else. But I don’t want to do that at all: I merely want to be somebody’s customer, pay an agreed fee, enjoy their products and services, and have them worry about their own Human Resource issues. I just want to eat, drink and be merry in your restaurant, and pay the agreed price.
Customers don’t own the problem here, and it is not the Customer who is being the “cheap, righteous, hypocritical bastard” in this equation. It is your boss who is doing that. Stop blaming the Customer, because the Customer is always right: his wallet says so. And stop blaming “The System” because there is no such thing: there are only restaurant owners who are greedy, and wait staff who are naive. The Emancipation Proclamation was made over 100 years ago: nobody needs to work for slave wages anywhere in the United States of America.
Your abusive employment relationships could change in an instant, if you wanted to. One city at a time, until a critical mass built and a tipping point was reached (no pun intended). Starting with small towns, and working your way up to the big town centers. Start at say Rugby, North Dakota — nobody works for tips, nobody works for less than $7 per hour. Then move it to Thief River Falls, North Dakota. Then to Minot, North Dakota. Then to Fargo, North Dakota…
You lot could have an entire State hacked in a month, two months maximum, if you really wanted to.
But there is 0% Future in thinking of your Customers as “cheap bastards.” That won’t part them from any of their money, ever. Won’t get their sympathy, either. It can and will only ever piss them off Mightily.
Don’t forget that not only are you tipping the server but the busser, bartender, food runners, expeditors (and Landry’s restaurants take part of our tips for the hostess. Whether you tip or not, the server has about half of the tip to tipshare and taxes. All of my salary for forty years has gone to taxes. Paychecks come to me ‘prepaid void’. The IRS assumes a minimum of a 9% tip and base your taxes on that amount even if you don’t report tips. And they take more at the end of the year if your salary didn’t cover the taxes.
So if it’s so bad why did you do it for 40 years? Most people don’t stay in the same job for 10, let alone, 40 years. This tells me that you made enough as a server to support yourself for half your life. Again- if it was so awful you would have quit years ago and done something different.
What makes you think it was awful? I loved my job most of the time. If I sound overbearing, it’s because I’ve heard it all so many times that I am trying to help people understand what the rules are. I’ve worked in truck stops, diners, steakhouses, lounges, supperclubs, hotels, showrooms and many great restaurants. I am familiar with all levels of service and have no problem identifying the problems. Often, understanding the guest is key to providing them with their needs. I don’t sell the most the expensive items, I sell the guest what it is they want. Many of these people writing in can only relate to their usual places where everyone knows them. Often, these places often hire local, young, inexperienced employees. There’s no comparing this to going out to a concert and having dinner. You kind of have to follow all the comments to understand some of the answers.
As a former I can tell you this … do not leave 20% just because you feel you have to.
Yes, I used to make $2.25-$2.75 an hour on my jobs, but if I actually tried hard I could easily average $200+ or over a night and that was back in the 1980’s. With my wage and tips together on an 6 hour shift I was typically pulling in about $40 an hour before taxes. That hourly rate amounts to close to $80, for a job that required little more than being pleasant and staying attentive.
I actually kept on waiting tables on weekends and a couple of nights a week even after I found a nice day job because the money was better than my regular job, and quite frankly it was more pleasing to deal with everyday people than the morons at that day job.
If a waiter or waitress doesn’t like their job it is probably because they don’t try. Quite frankly, a quick smile or a pleasant greetings will set the tone for a table and most people are actually very pleasant to wait on if you get things off to a good start.
I get so tired of people saying 15% is the lowest you should go. Absolutely not. And rounding up to the nearest $10 is absurd as well (sorry OP, but that’s greed). If your service is done properly then 15% is a start. If the service actually made the meal more enjoyable then 20% or higher should be the amount. Lastly, if you service was exceptionally poor, leave noting and note it on the receipt. You do not have to leave a small amount to let the waiter know you did not forget, a finely worded sentence will do it (do NOT be rude though).
Your money is earned with hard work and if you slack at your job do you expect to get raises or bonuses or make more money? No. Do not throw it away if the service is not what you would expect and do not feel bad about it. I was hired to provide good service and bring patrons back to the restaurants, and I did that. Other waiters who put out decent effort also got tipped well. Typically, it’s only the waiters who really don’t care that don’t get tipped and uite frankly, they don’t deserve it.
All that being said, I have a soft spot for waiters who go above and beyond like I used to do, and I have no problem leaving upwards of 30%. But I also have no problems letting crappy waiters know they were just that.
Thanks for posting, Steve.
While there is huge momentum for the 20 percent policy,
I’m thinking of changing:
Start with
08 percent for lousy service – equals what the server will pay tax on
and increase based on quality of service – which includes the Server making sure the order is correct and prepared properly before delivering
and likely maxing out at 20 percent.
Sorry to all those who will flame out.
There should be a reward for higher education, responsibility, hazardous duty, inclement weather, etc
None of which are required of Servers.
Lots of people work hard.
And many of them work outside.
It’s in the teens here (PA) and there are hundreds of gas workers in the area doing their jobs 24 X 7.
Can’t see a server in a high end restaurant taking home more than the gas workers.
Yes. I like this. Start with 8%. One missed tip can have a waiter playing catch-up for days. Managers of restaurant WILL NOT, despite the law, include the extra required wage if a server does not make enough on a night to earn minimum wage.
If I have no tables one night, I’m literally making $2.13/hour (before taxes). If I have two tables, and I’m having a rough day and fuck up the order of my second table and they decide not to tip me, I’m in the hole. The first table may have given me ten dollars, but the second tables gave me nothing. So now I am making about $3.25/hour. Nope nope nope.
Connor, cry me a river. Call the whaaaaaaaambulance!
I’m self-employed. If my clients say “no” to my business proposals, I get NOTHING. Not a single brass razzoo. And this pattern can repeat over and over again. And it can go on and on and on, for weeks and months on end. And even if I do a brilliant job for a client, there is 0% chance of me EVER being awarded a Tip.
Quite frankly, clients do not want to know about me having a Bad Day, and they certainly don’t expect to pay for it. They do not care that it has been WEEKS or even MONTHS since I’ve billed out anything to anybody. Even if I have done brilliant work for them in the past: if our economy is in the toilet (thanks to Obama) and if it stays there for any length of time, life can get pretty tough.
Guess what? Life is tough all over. Be thankful you can rely on getting $2.13 per hour. I can’t!
Tipping at 20%? Only in your wet dreams. I have a copy of “Schott’s Food & Drink Miscellany” open in front of me. Page 115 is the tipping guide. It says:
“Although which services are considered worthy of tipping varies around the world, most countries tip restaurant waiting staff between 10-20% of the bill.”
If you (and others) are *seriously* suggesting that tipping should START at the very, very top of that range — 20% — then you have rocks for brains.
Note also there is NO MENTION of tipping barmen, busboys, chefs or management or the laundry boy or anybody else: anyone who does *that* also has rocks for brains. That is what the restaurant’s revenues is for: meeting its expenses like paying its staff.
I can recall back in the 1980’s that tipping worldwide was set at 10%, and there being a concerted push by restaurant staff to extort customers into considering 12.5%. Then 15% in the 1990’s. Now 20%???
Food prices have kept pace with inflation in the US and elsewhere since the mid-1970’s, so there is absolutely NO reason AT ALL to tip more than 10%.
You need more money to live off? Ask your boss for a raise. That’s what restaurant staff do here in New Zealand, and — guess what? — for good restaurant staff, it always works!
You have the answer to your confusion about why tipping should be more than 10% right under your nose, but you don’t see it. First of all, those tipping guides are wildly inaccurate and they overlap countries. For example, you said that the guide has set a worldwide recommendation. Well, in most European countries tipping is not expected because the pay for the help is built in to the prices. That brings down a worldwide recommendation. We have a different setup here so to use a worldwide recommendation sounds like a disingenuous way to keep a few dollars in your pocket. Next, you go on to say that there is no mention of tipping busboys, etc. so the tip amount is inflated. I can tell you from 30 years of experience in every type of place from a college gin mill, to a national chain, to a 5 star hotel ,over 50 different restaurants in seven different states, from coast to coast, that in every single one of them the servers do, indeed, pay out every one of those groups. This is who I tip out: bartenders, bussers, kitchen,sometimes the host,and then I pay 3-4% of all monies charged on credit cards to the credit card companies. The absolute industry standard is that all of these groups get tipped-100% everywhere, every time. If I didn’t have to pay out all that money before I saw a dime then 10% wouldn’t be so bad. However, I pay out 10% before I see anything so if I don’t make more than 10% I am working for nothing. Chiefy, that guide you have is either very old, much too broad to be even in the ballpark, or the people writing it had little practical experience. That may sound silly to you , but consider this. Whenever I would work at a new bar I could tell if a bartender or a restaurant architect designed it. A bartender would know what will work and what doesn’t as far as design is concerned. The toughest bars to logistically work were invariably designed by restaurant architects. You would think that they would be experts, but the reality is that they are ignorant of how a bar really works. Just like those experts that wrote that tipping guide. They may have had proximity to the hospitality industry, but they very clearly don’t know how it operates. I suggest you ask a server or bartender that you like or trust to explain it to you. You don’t know me from Adam and the tipping guide people don’t know their ass from their elbow.
@Biff McGuzzle:
Then surely the correct answer is for wait staff to get stroppywith their bosses and demand change to the way things are done. Then make the changes happen. Because nobody is going to change things for you.
Beggaring customers to increase their tip percentage is surely undignified and must be a humiliating self-inflicted injury. Why would ANYBODY do this? Better to dress up in sackcloth and ashes, and flagellate yourself bloody: as self-inflicted injuries go, you could surely do no worse than begging for tips. At least with self-flagellation you are somewhat in control of the damage you suffer: by relying on the generosity of others to put food on your table, you have ZERO control at all!
Why would you do this to yourself, then? For THIRTY YEARS??? That prospect seems tragic in and of itself. I simply do not understand.
Like I said, nobody tips me. Worse than that, my clients — even tho’ I really like them and they really like me — really don’t give a Continental Dam’n whether or not I can pay my bills or feed my family. They just don’t: it’s a hard reality, but this world is a tough place, full of unfair things. And when we graduate from Hi School and finally get to put on our Big Boy pants, and legally drink, smoke, vote, own guns, drive cars, fly aeroplanes and serve on juries and in HM Armed Forces if we want to, we also get to learn that Life Ain’t Fair, and it is not supposed to be. It is our difficult Rite of Passage into Manhood, our first of many of life’s Hard Knocks.
And it is good for us.
I wonder how you managed to tolerate 30 YEARS of hard toil — because waiting tables is dam’ned difficult work, I did it briefly — in a situation where you were reliant on the charity of a perfect stranger in order to make ends meet. Because Tips are precisely that: they are non-compulsory ex-gratia gifts from one human being to another.
Not even Jacob in the Bible did 30 years of hard labor for next-to-nothing, and Laban was a hard task master and a swindler to boot! Why would you want to do anything more difficult than what Jacob did to earn Rachel’s hand in marriage and a decent flock of sheep?
In my case, nothing less than brain damage would cause me to willingly accept the sort of “employment” arrangement that you have done: it is the next best thing to slavery, from the sounds of things.
I would far prefer the vagaries and uncertainty of being somewhat in control of my own Destiny — even if it be by working for somebody else for a wage or salary in a worst case scenario. At least then if I don’t get paid properly it is mostly my fault for not being more diligent and insistent on collecting my Receivables, and anyway I can sue the bastards and collect my Due and Lawful wage/salary/fee.
If a customer stiffs you for your tip, who are you going to sue? If you cannot sue someone for that revenue missing from your back pocket, it never was Due and Lawful, and was never anything other than some vague expectation of yours, without legal substance and without any recourse available whatsoever.
For wait staff to somehow feel comfortable about insisting on a “raise” in the percentage generously gifted to them by their employer’s customers is bold-faced cheek. I wonder why it apparently doesn’t feel humiliating: I’d rather be punched in the testicles than beg. It’s a self-Respect thing.
WHY would you tolerate that for yourself? Buggered if I know. Makes no sense at all to me.
Hi Chiefy–I think I can now see some of where we differ on this subject. I think a lot of it is simply the context of our two different countries. You see, in the US tipping is not looked as begging. I would not beg for tips, but then you might reply that I seem cheeky to expect to be tipped, but that is, in fact, the way that it is. I don’t expect to be tipped for crappy service and I understand when sometimes I am not tipped very much. If I suck, which does happen on occasion, then I get what I deserved. Sometimes you will get an older couple who are clearly on a fixed income, or a very young couple , who are watching their pennies and this is clearly a special occasion for them. I may try even harder for them because I know that they are aware of the etiquette to tip, but are unable. I would never short anybody on attention because I knew my tip was going to be small. It is disrespectful to them and my boss, who I represent. There is never any beggaring for tips or a higher percentage. They leave what they see fit and most of the time I am treated well. Some servers may like your advice for switching over to a system where we were paid a more steady rate and tipping was eliminated, but not myself. You see, because I do happen to be pretty good at what I do, I do better than most servers. I am fine with being paid on the quality of my work. If that new system were to be put in place, servers like me would get out because it would be a pay cut for me, while it would be a pay raise for another. Service quality would really go downhill if servers, as a whole , knew that they were making X dollars regardless of the effort. Yes, owners could then fire them , but then replace them with another half-assed server. I know it doesn’t say much for the work ethic of servers, but that is the case in many fields in the US today. The worst thing you can do in many cases in the US is to take the competitive aspect out of the situation. I will give you an example. I have gotten some very fine service from individual municipal and state employees, but as a group they are notorious for just being lazy as hell and not very smart. It is a combination of no competition for the job once they are in, relatively poor pay, and the resulting lack of effort from said circumstances. Everyone should try hard or get a job that better suits them , but that just does not happen as much as it should. As far as I am concerned, again, I do not feel humiliated by depending upon the kindness of strangers because it just isn’t looked at that way here. Also, there are lots of other intangibles. I am not married and I have no kids to support so I only have to worry about myself. I listen to music at work and talk with pretty women. I get fed and the tough part of my night is only 4 or 5 hours long. I get to entertain my guests and they entertain me. I make a lot of contacts. When I was bartending there was always a party after work. Now, I am an old guy and I am done with work by 10. As far as the money goes, I could have made a lot more in another field but money has not been the biggest factor in my thinking. Then, why all the hoo-ha over tips? Simply, this is a forum about tipping and I am throwing in my opinions. However, I am now back in school studying for a degree that will land me a more personally satisfying and much better paying job. I want the better paying job because I have no health insurance ( extremely rare for restaurant workers in the US to have health insurance ) and I am getting older. Also, because I need to save up a bit for my geezerhood I am now doing what I need to. The restaurant business can no longer meet those needs. Again, keep in mind that many servers really do have a lousy situation to be in. They work for much less than I do and I have had those jobs when I was young. Many of them are filled by students who are short on experience so they cannot get my job. Others are mothers who are trying to bring in a tiny second income to their houses. The people like myself, who have done it for a living for a long time, are the minority. Most of them work very hard under tough circumstances ( The restaurant industry in the US is absolutely notorious for chewing up and spitting out employees, who then sometimes have to deal with tipping issues with guests. Yes, you are quite right that it does really suck for many of them. They either graduate from school and move on, get better at it like me and get paid better, or put up with it because it is all they can get.) I can see your point that it is disheartening to work hard for a table and be dependent upon their kindness, and then have them leave a lousy tip. Fortunately, in most places, even the lower quality places, that doesn’t happen all that much. That is why you see the anger directed toward the people on this website that think it is OK to fail to tip according to custom.They are a minority that is thumbing their noses at socially prescibed norms.Yes, there is no law forcing them to tip and they revel in that fact. It is akin to me going to a Christmas party and digging at that itch up in my butt crack. There is no law saying that I can’t do that, but it is rude ,socially offensive and insulting. I can confidently bet you that every single person on this website that has expressed an opinion against tipping has embarrassed more than one person, who was aghast seeing their friends being cheap.
@Biff McGuzzle:
First off, thanks for your comprehensive and considered response. I, in turn, mean you no Disrespect by my lines of Enquiry.
You have said that waiters lobbying for the tip standard to be 20% isn’t beggaring — in your case I’ll accept it isn’t intended to be — yet if you give this entire thread plus the originating article itself a jolly good fair reading, it is nothing less than beggaring in the primary sense of the term. Why else the Article? Were any of us in doubt of what we should/should not tip? (Bags not…! I know *precisely*, to the Brass Razzoo, how much to tip, and have ever since my mis-spent youth…)
And *why* the suggestion that customers ought to clean up after themselves??? Even AFTER a 20% minimum tip? I thought that is what the tip-out you’ve described was supposed to pay for: yet this article doesn’t seem to agree. Tipping even ONE Brass Razzoo for Bad Service? That’s beggary AND cheek, surely…! ‘Strewth, I could go on and on, but I better not: ground I’ve covered well enough already.
In New Zealand I never tip. Won’t do it, even tho’ a few cheeky waiters have tried it on, particularly with our American Tourists (most don’t, and wouldn’t dare: it’s Undignified and rather Desperate-looking, at best.) Haven’t been to a restaurant in the US in Donkey’s Years, so I do not know whether I’d tip there, or just-as-likely not out of Habit.
(Handy hint: if you ever do visit New Zealand or Australia, please never do tip: they will spot you for an American right away — so will everybody else — and your evening will be needlessly expensive and prolly unenjoyable as well. It’s a mean trick that does happen here, particularly at our tourist traps — NZ perhaps moreso than Australia, dunno: I haven’t been to Oz in Donkey’s Years, either. You will enjoy your time much better if you are not perceived to be throwing your money around. Best advice I can give you, FWIW. I give that same guidance to all of my American guests, and those that have ignored my advice usually end up agreeing with me, eventually — sadder but alas! much wiser for the experience…)
I return to my question, tho: if there is no legal requirement that requires customers to tip you (and there isn’t!) then exactly how is that different from busking? Or other forms of Beggary? Who will you sue if you do not get your perceived Due-and-Lawful from an otherwise-able-to-pay customer for your hard work?
Nobody.
That’s the whole thing: your Tip isn’t really any form of “pay” for “services rendered”, in any sense whatsoever: it isn’t a transaction, there is no contract between you and the Customer (no, not even a Social Contract).
So getting “no tips” and a decent Living Wage plus bonuses couldn’t possibly be a “pay cut”. Not in anybody’s remotest, wildest dreams: not even in America.
It would instead (in Law, at least) be a removal of voluntary Non-Tax-Exempt Contributions to your unregistered charitable organization: in exactly the same way as donating to a non-registered Charity would be…
Like I said in an earlier post to someone else: the service here in New Zealand is exceptionally good: those who don’t serve well usually eventually get managed out of most restaurants, to “go succeed somewhere else.” There are no shortage of applicants for wait jobs. I can honestly say I have never, ever been served in NZ by a surly staff member. Or even served poorly. It simply never happens.
DownUnder, hospitality is a Profession, and Professionals do it for a jolly good Living Wage. Tourism is our bread-and-butter, our second-highest export dollar earner. Nobody has any real need for health insurance (you can buy some if you want): we have that covered under our socialized medical system. Everyone is entitled to some sort of pension upon retirement: nobody gets rich off it, and most people take advantage of the tax-delayed retirement savings scheme called Kiwisaver — not compulsory, but government-enabled all the same. Employers and Employees both contribute, if the employee opts in…
If your systems don’t do stuff like that in America, perhaps they really ought to…?
Again- this is America. Get another job if you don’t make enough in your current one. What the hell is wrong with all you people? If it’s as bad as it sounds then WHY DO YOU STILL DO IT?! Is it cuz the economy and the job market is bad? The job market will always be bad for those who have no initiative and no skills so get used to it.
In the good ol USA uncle sam charges tax to the wait staff based on the amount of your order.
If you do not tip it costs them money to serve you,
I agree w/ tipping 20% for good service, but I don’t see why I need to consider “the staffing and patron level in the restaurant, and remember that your server may just be having a bad day.” People go into this line of work for the upside. Rather than take a job w/ a guaranteed wage, waitstaff join the profession because they know they can make way more money by performing well. While a normal job may not dock your pay for a bad day, a normal job doesn’t pay you extra for a good day either. You can’t have the upside w/out the downside. You can’t say “pay me more when I provide good service, but don’t pay me less when I don’t.” Seriously, it’s like saying “when you have a good experience I should get all the credit and you should leave me a great tip, but when you have a bad experience it’s not my fault or even if it is you should be understanding.” That attitude doesn’t work in any industry. I will tip you 20% or even more if I have a good experience; if you don’t, I don’t owe you a good tip.
How about a real life example?
A family member recently had a birthday and part of the celebration was dinner at a restaurant – a BUSY restaurant.
Fourteen people dined at an estimated amount of $15 each, before tip.
As we were eager to continue the celebration at a dance bar, we were there only about an hour.
So, $15 times 14 equals $210 total.
While I didn’t see what each person tipped (separate bills), it is a generous group, so I am confident the average was at least 20 percent.
20 percent times $210 means $42 was tipped at our two tables for an hours work, admittedly hard.
The I.R.S. mandates reporting 8 percent. This is where it gets sticky.
Although it is a busy place, only the establishment knows what the total receipts were and how much was calculated for our server.
So, I’ll just use the I.R.S.’s 8 percent for a mandatory $16.80 for our Server to report.
Without any educational credentials required, he pocketed about $25, tax free, from our table alone. I don’t know how many others he was assigned.
$26 per hour extrapolated to annual would be about $52,000.
Remember, that amount was EXEMPT from Federal, State, Local, Social Security, etc.
Since the exact amount is impossible for me to calculate, I’m not making a specific point.
He worked hard while we were there, we tipped accordingly, and I do not begrudge him in any way.
But he is Most Certainly not struggling to get along.
Just a well-paid, hard-working, young man with good manners.
Error above – “$26 per hour …” should have read $25 per hour.
Except your forget that with the advent of the credit card, most tips given to service people do not come in cash. And not only do the %15-%20 in taxes come off of this credit card tax, but it is also distributed (in many establishments with bartenders, busboys, etc.) among the other employees. Occasionally a manager will even take a cut, as is the case with my fine dining restaurant.
Let’s do a little math.
A table of five is seated, and engages a bill of $265. The host of the party feels generous, and tells the waiter to put the entire bill on his credit card. If tipped (and I consider this to be generous and not often received) %20 this comes out to $53.
Taxes
$53 – ($53 x .17) = 43.99
Busboy
$43.99 – ($43.99 x .07) = 40.99
Let’s round up.
Bartender
$41 – ($41 x .10) = $37.90
Your $265 meal nets that waiter about $38.
He lost 34% of his $53 to other employees and taxes, or $15.
This happens on every single credit card bill, and often with cash as well, as some employees require their waiter to declare cash tips. I myself do not have to declare them, but I always tip the busboys at least %10 of the cash I make per night.
Generally, waiters make under $30,000 a year. And these are people who struggle CONSTANTLY ever night to meet the demands of their tables, kind and smiling to both helpful diners and rude diners. We waiters are your servants for the night and we are not even paid minimum wage. $2.13 an hour is the legal standard. THIS is why you must tip. It is what we live on. Not our wage. Your tips.
Conor,
Don’t understand your math, but let’s use your $265 bill and $53 tip as a starting point.
If you give the busboy $3 and the bartender $4, then your net tip is $46
Since the I.R.S. requires the restaurant to report 8 percent of the bill as tip income, they include $256 time 8 percent or $20.48 on your tax document.
Since your net tip was $46, the difference ($46 – $20.48 = $25.52) goes STRAIGHT INTO YOUR POCKET! Meaning you will not pay any federal, state, local, social security or medicare on $25.52.
Someone required to report ALL of their income as taxable has to earn nearly twice as much to end up with the same amount in their pocket.
You said “Generally, waiters make under $30,000 a year”.
I strongly suspect your talking about what is reported to the I.R.S.,
NOT INCLUDING money you don’t have to report…
There is a downside. If Social Security still exists when Servers become eligible, their SS amount will be much less because they will have paid less in. The smarter ones will know that and will set aside some of that UNTAXED money.
Hawkeye,
If you didn’t understand, why are you responding?
My point was the prevalence of credit card payments. When this occurs, the money does not go into our pocket. It is put on a bi-weekly income, and distributed in the form of paycheck.
Because of the expectancy of tips, the IRS considers this a form of wage. Thus, SS taxes and Fed Income taxes are taken out of THAT paycheck, the one containing your tips. This is in addition to the payout for other staff. Our wage checks are combined between $2.13 an hour and tips (after taxes); often these are split into two different paychecks, with tips distributed weekly and wage distributed biweekly. This is common to many restaurant.
The tips that waiters receive are nearly always taxed, the same as a cashier or florist or secretary, etc. A waiter is lucky to see 60% of his tip go into his pocket. Very few tips go unreported, except in establishments that do not require the declaration of cash tips.
AKA tipping is your wage, and large chucks of this wage are removed before it reaches you.
Conor,
I am posting again.
Not to continue the debate (who can continue typing the longest …)
but because tipping practice should be fully disclosed, not skewed in an attempt to obtain agreement under false pretenses. (Talking to everyone, not just you.)
1. Correct me if I am wrong, but don’t busboys, bartenders and hostesses Start at minimum wage or more? (Explaining why the shares given by you are smaller.)
2. You provided information new to me on how some businesses handle credit card payments. Where I’ve seen tips distributed, Servers were given cash immediately following the transaction. That was in small, non-chain restaurants. Never knew how my favorite restaurant, Olive Garden, handled tips.
BUT, you left out how your tip check is calculated regarding taxes. One could assume the entire amount of tips was included in taxable income. I suspect that is NOT correct.
Please enlighten myself and others.
I made at least one grammatical error in a previous post:
“I strongly suspect your talking” – should read you’re …
But, I was tired after working 12 hours as a Security Guard.
My hourly wage is $9.25 and 4 of those hours will be paid at time and a half. So, for my 12 hour day I grossed $129.50.
Every bit of that is taxable.
And I worked outside. And cannot receive tips.
The work is not nearly as tiring as Serving.
No complaint here as the job is 2.5 miles from home and I’m just spending a little time until Medicare and Social Security kick in.
However, some of my colleagues are living off their wages. And raising children. Etc. And take home about $600 every two weeks. That is, if they are not paying for health insurance.
This is a rural area and while most or all of my co-workers think our jobs should pay more, it’s more than minimum wage. My closest co-worker has a degree in Business Administration, but continues to look for work in his field. And is the best guard after working a few months than any other, except for supervisors.
Posted so others understand where I’m coming from.
Hawkeye,
1. Yes. Busboys make minimum wage nearly always. Bartenders actually make the most, at $10-$15 per hour plus %10 waiter tips.
2. Yes, the whole tip check is taxed. It’s simply considered your wage, no matter if it’s large or small. Fed Inc tax and SS tax are taken out of it.
My knowledge of this is coming from New Orleans restaurant experience. I currently work on Bourbon Street at a fine dining establishment, and have worked in and around the French Quarter at multiple restaurant, both chains and local. All but one use similar percentages, and all but one distributed post-taxed checks for a sever’s tips.
I realize this is not a pissing contest, who has the job who makes the least money. Some waitstaff jobs I’ve made large large amount of money (for a college student with a $3,000 bill from school each semester and STILL $20,000 in student loans.)
But I am simply writing this to explain why patrons should tip, no matter what. It’s part of the dining experience, patrons must expect it of the restaurant. But without it, a waiter is working for about 3/8ths of what a McDonalds worker makes.
Hawkeye and Conor: In Texas, servers are paid $2.13 an hour plus tips. Bussers receive $4.50 an hour plus 2% of sales. Bartenders get $2.13 – $15 an hour depending on the place and your experience. Some places vary but by and large, that’s the system. Landry’s is the worst. How does a hostess become a tip employee? They get a percentage of the tips at the Aquarium in Houston! Since the hostesses are usually friends or roommates of some of the waiters, they work in tandem to steal all the best tables and get the majority of the people per night. Corporate operations are the worst. No one is responsible and everyone is in charge. And the average age employee is post-teen. All the professionals left years ago. Typical corporate restaurant.
Conor and mamasnothappy,
I hadn’t mentioned before, but I lived in New Orleans and Lake Charles (in a previous lifetime.)
Landry’s was considered a better seafood restaurant back then. I thought they were pricey, but the food was good.
Glad I don’t have to deal with my fellow guards impacting my take home pay! Now, if they would ALL just show up on time when my shift was over…
BTW, my sister Served in New Orleans and made pretty good money. She was also subjected to an attempted robbery, but was able to outrun her attacker.
There’s a new one these days. Actually, two. At my restaurant I have to tip out the kitchen 3% of my sales. So, on a $265 tab that’s another $7.95 taken out , leaving around $30. And you’ve forgotten the fee for the credit card company. More and more restaurants are just passing this on to the servers now. Depending upon what time of day it is and what day it is that is another 2.5%-4% of the amount charged. In this instance, say it the high end at 4%. There goes another 10.60 out of your tip, leaving around 20$.By the way, I recently spent two years working in Aspen, CO at a five star hotel. I waited on Robert DeNiro, Arnold Schwarzenegger, High end clientele. More billionaires than in a busload of nuns. I made arond 30,000$ before taxes for the year.I have 30 years of experience in the business and I have extensive knowledge and experience.Some nights I made big money and that had to compensate for the nights that I made very little. Occasionally I will make mistakes and service will not be perfect, but my goal is perfection. I don’t resent anyone tipping less if my service really did impact their night adversely, but these days a lot of people are looking for an excuse to stiff you. Oh, I had to wait four minutes for more bread while it was being heated! Too bad for you–10%.There is no law saying that people have to tip, but it is a social contract. If you have a problem with the social contract, don’t go out to eat. If you stiff a server, they still have to pay out to others because you need to make a statement. The statement that you are making is: Fuck you servers. If you really must make a statement, make one that is constructive and may have some impact. Don’t come to my restaurant and write a letter to the owner saying why you didn’t come.Maybe that may change things someday. The system is the way it is right now and if you stiff a server, you are imposing a fine on them because you don’t like something that is out of their control. If I made 20% all the time, I would be quite surprised and happy. I make around 17%. Sometimes higher, sometimes lower. When I get 20%, that is great. When I get 15% that is in the ballpark. When I screw up and get 10-12 %, that is a learning experience for me. When somebody stiffs me I not only do not make money, but I lose money. Then there are the people who pick up the entire physical check and both credit card slips and then skedaddle. When I catch them on their way out and request one of the signed credit card slips, it invariably has not been signed. They had no intention for one of those slips to make it into my hands.Picking up the whole thing was no mistake.To turn the latest tipping fiasco around, the one about the lady Pastor who didn’t like an autograt being part of her check when she was part of a large party, consider this. Most people would not consider stiffing God when they go to church . They make their contribution because it is a social contract. I am not trying to equate myself with God, but your church has worldly obligations , such as electric bills and feeding that XL Pastor. You meet that social contract, but people who stiff a server will not meet the other social contract. They can cry all they want about the high prices of food and wine, but the prices are what they are. If you don’t like it, stay home or go somewhere cheaper. I have to pay my bills too and if you won’t tip reasonably for good service , you are not a social crusader, you are just a cheap bastard.
With any contract, there are two sides that must agree to the contract. The contract between the restaurant and the customer is that the customer pays for the steak, and the restaurant serves the steak. Either the customer or the restaurant is violating the law if they break this contract.
The “social contract” between the server and the customer is not legally binding, but is overwhelmingly accepted in the United States and some other countries. The server brings the food, gets the drinks (basically sets up and maintains the entire dining experience for the customer), and the customer provides a tip for the services. Ideally an excellent experience will result in an excellent tip. A good experience should result in a good tip, and poor experiences… you see the pattern.
The tip is based off from the experience the customer gets while at the restaurant. It is NOT owed to the server. That is why it is called a gratuity. If you get a P.Poor server, they certainly don’t deserve a 20% tip.
Where does this 20% number come from anyway? Is there a Ms. Manners or Dear Abby out there that proclaimed that 20% is the “normal” tip? In my teens the rate was 10%. By the 90’s it had risen to 15%. I’m assuming if this discussion thread keeps going the citied rate on the last post will be 30%.
I worked as a server since 1968 and I never heard of 10% as a tip. That was an insult. And 15% is the accepted tip for a meal during lunch or dinner. Those are the rush periods where you really can expect a tiny bit longer for food to come out due to the rush. We strive for 20%. We expect our servers to give 20% service. But you are the judge. And if you don’t feel satisfied and the server couldn’t fix the problem, call the manager. Guests are responsible to alert management if they need help. Just not tipping is NOT the answer. When someone sits at their table, they opened a contract with that server.
We tip 20% as a standard tip because we like getting great service when we come back.
But I completely disagree about cleaning up afterwards, especially anything on the ground. It’s inappropriate and bad manners. If you pick up anything off the ground, someone at your table will think you’re unfamiliar with fine dining. This person explains it better here: http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/recipes/table-manners/dropped-food-restaurant-feb02
Most all restaurants, whether chain franchises or mom-and-pop variety, use the tip practice to shift service costs from restauranteur to customer. It is a practice engrained in American culture and not easily changed. But it is too easy to place the blame at the feet of business. Young people lacking job experience, school dropouts and others with criminal backgrounds do indeed get the short end of this stick. If you are young, chalk it up to experience. That’s the fact of the matter and experience is a good teacher. Otherwise, you can’t blame someone else for a crappy job where you hustle for tips if you don’t stay in school and focused, gain a marketable skill, or stay out of trouble.
The custom of tipping varies widely among countries (I like the ones where it’s considered an insult). In the US, I would say restaurant tipping is controversial (see comments above), inconsistent (ditto), apparently abusive in cases where the employer is shifting costs to his employees and customers, inefficient economically (in terms of negative vs. positive externalities), and mostly, just a royal pain in the ass.
10%? 15%? 20%? To echo the recent remarks of a distinguished public servant who doesn’t work for tips……what difference does it make?
Yes I agree you can’t blame someone else for your mistakes in life. My point is more that it’s not even worth it (although now-a-days there aren’t many other “rock-bottom” options besides telemarketing), and I wish it weren’t so easy for restaurants to fill their ranks with people who are too old to do it, but are seduced by the initial promise of fast cash. I think it’s ok obviously to do it when you’re young and especially in college since it works well with an academic schedule. But the dropout, or the unlucky schlub that was foolish enough to get a dui or some other strike that can mark you for life should be focusing on doing just what you said: gaining a marketable skill. My problem with the tipping paradigm is that the army of workers who depend on it are told that their earnings are directly related to their “hustle”, and that it gives them control of their destiny. In reality they have no control over it, and their only hope is to take as many shifts as possible, try to get seated with as many customers as possible and run themselves ragged taking double shifts every fri, sat, sun to make ends meat. This will make up for the inevitable stiffers that bring your average down. If you’re making your way through college and will ultimately have something to do once you jump ship that is fine. But if you’re slaving away your twenties and thirties, you’re honestly just wasting your time in a “profession” that will ultimately leave you high and dry with no benefits, no severance, probably no savings and no skills. I guess I’m just touchy as I’ve seen a lot of my friends–people with great personal traits; NOT lazy just foolish–in this situation since they didn’t jump ship like I did. And all that awaits them is another gig waiting tables and a society that says, “Too bad. Shoulda planned better, sucker. Oh by the way, you didn’t get my 10th dr. pepper refill on time so I’ll be teaching you a lesson with a smaller contribution to your paltry earnings tonight.” Petty nonsense.
If Server pay was determined by employers, compensation amount would be determined solely by their boss(es).
With tipping, Servers have input as to compensation. Poorly tipping customers are offset by better tippers.
Nothing to be done except quit if the boss is a bum.
Yeoooow, this comment thread demonstrates why eating out in America is a drag. Here’s the real prob: franchised restaurant owners have a business model of constant growth. Running a restaurant never should have turned into a way to build a massive pyramid-style business with tons of unpaid labor cleaning, maintaining the facilities and completing all the transactions so you can achieve “high-volume sales”. Every time I’ve ended up waiting tables for a stretch it’s because of some calamity in life and I had to go back to rock bottom. Almost all of the other wait staff had a similar story, or were too young to feel like they were making a bad choice working there. The owner of a high-volume restaurant would be screwed if he could not exploit a bunch of people who can’t get another job because of their age, lack of education or criminal background.
The truth is it’s not a real job, “good service” is not an important value, and people need to chill out about their dining experience. I wish this bubble would pop along with a lot of the other rackets currently wasting young people’s most productive years so a few people at the top can be millionaires (higher-ed I’m looking at you). Waiters need to leave the industry en masse before it leaves them (which always happens eventually). Go focus on improving your life by learning a REAL skill, or at least working in a job where the service you provide is actually meaningful (ALL facilities for people with developmental disabilities are under-served). Find a better way to spend your youth than dropping off a plate of toxic, processed food for some unhappy stranger. Customers need to stay home and make dinner. Grow your own food. Be part of healthier way and not just part of the masses of drones lining up to make Sysco and Monsanto richer.
And restaurant-owners: I’m sorry but your business model should have never planned for unlimited growth. A diner is a manageable cottage-industry that meshes with the basic structure of a family. If you want to own a business like that, you should plan to be present and pulling shifts your damn self. Of course, all of this is a non-starter to most Americans. But the fact is the food-service industry is a microcosm of unchecked, self-cannibalizing capitalism where every little thing is commoditized down to the dime, and a bunch of unskilled labor is running itself ragged on unreliable, unpredictable shift-work only to fight for the scraps (the practice of tip-share is ALWAYS used if a restaurant has bussers and a bar). The sadder fact is that this is the direction all service-based jobs are headed in America (basically ALL jobs, since we don’t make goods anymore). Teachers’ jobs increasingly resemble waiting tables where students’ metrics are assessed like they are customers. Medicine field is close behind.
And to end my screed: who said it was annoying to dine in Europe where they factor in a tip? I have really only spent time in Spain so maybe it’s different from the other Euro-zone (plus this was ten years ago). But I remember the service model being so different in that there were never tips. The diners were always small cafes. The service staff consisted of the owner and family members or friends. And the “service” was pretty aloof. They got around to you when they had time. There was no motivation to pretend you were friends, and I actually found this more personable. It took longer to get in and out of a sit-down place, but EVERYTHING took longer in Spain. People walked slower, talked longer and lingered over every meal. I kinda liked it.
Basically I agree with the SPQR poster from earlier.
Talbot is right on the money. It is an issue that will ultimately affect all of us, and that includes people in far away places as well (I am wearing a $8 shirt from K-Mart. The Khazaks who grew the cotton, the Banglas who stitched it together, the carriers who moved it and the meagre staff at K-Mart all got screwed along the way so I could have an almost disposable shirt)
Australia has a higher cost of living because we are not as far down the track as our US brothers, and I deliberately choose local businesses over large Multinationals ($8 shirts not withstanding)
Buy your kids lobs, support local businesses & shop local, pay more and regain your community.
It’s very simple. I agree with the round it off to the nearest $10 and then tip 20%.
If you do that……you WILL get great service every time you go back. I think it’s worth an extra couple of bucks to get that great service.
If you get average service you can go with 15 to 18%.
If you get below average service……talk to the server and if they have a good attitude/ sorry for the problems kinda attitude……..then maybe go ahead with 15 to 20% depending on how well they explain themselves. If they have a poor attitude then go with 15%.
If you get horrible service it dont matter what you do that person is not going to be a waitor for ling.
This pissing contest in the guise of a discussion on tipping reminded me why the inherent uncertainty of settling a bill at a sit-down restaurant has become such a disagreeable way of ending a meal, and also why dealing with intrusive and often annoying waitstaff , such an off-putting experience when dining out.
The percentage of a meal’s cost that should go toward service is completely arbitrary, being as it is left to the discretion of the diner. Can you imagine the chaos that would ensue if every time you went to a store and bought something, you were expected to pay an unspecified percentage of the purchase price to the sales clerk for that person’s work in completing the sale? If you can’t, just read through the comments to this article.
Restaurants clearly abuse their ability to pay their waitstaff below minimum wage by shifting the cost to their customers’ discretion. Servers are wrong to direct their frustration at the customer, when they should be directing it at their employer.
In many civilized countries the conundrum and potential displeasure involved in tipping is simply avoided by including a service charge in the cost of the meal. A restaurant without such a practice might gripe that doing so would make its prices appear higher (and uncompetitive), but let’s face it: The price you pay for a meal in American restaurants, thanks to sales taxes and gratuities, is far from the price that appears on the menu. In many of those more enlightened countries where service (and sometimes tax too) is included, the diner still retains the option of rewarding especially fine service with an extra amount left discreetly on the table. Nor does incorporating a service charge demotivate or hurt service. On the contrary, I have found the service at restaurants in such countries to be generally of high calibre, and free of all the annoying, impersonal rituals common to dining in the US (a topic of another article, to be sure), while keeping prices commensurate with food quality and presentation.
It’s time servers had a conversation about their compensation with the people responsible for it, their employers, and if unhappy with the response, consider working elsewhere.
We need an internationally recognized bad tip to demonstrate our dissatisfaction with the service. Some amount that is small enough to be a bad tip yet significant that there is no doubt that it was intended to be a bad tip.
The previous poster mentions that a zero tip could be misconstrued as a forgotten tip or a stolen tip. My suggestions:
– 3 identical coins
– 3 nickles or
= 3 dimes
Why three you might ask? Why not?
I worked in restaurants through college and grad school. Even 10 years later, I still remember what a struggle it was. There’s no guarantee that you will make a living wage on any given week. I was lucky enough to work at a place that offered health insurance, but since I earned $2 per hour, I actually owed the company money from my tips in order to pay for the health insurance. Yes, my paychecks were usually negatives.
If a table dines and dashes, do you know that usually the server has to pay for that? I don’t think many people realize that.
Anyway, I could go on a long tangent about all of the bad days I had in restaurants. That’s not the point. I made a choice to work in restaurants because of the potential for great days and weeks and pretty good money. The way to do this was to work busy shifts and to always be 100% on my game.
Now when I go out to eat, I have a critical eye. I can’t help it. I can usually tell when someone is slacking. I’ll tip 20%-30% for great service. Good tippers helped pay for my education. The least I can do it pay if forward. But I’ve been known to leave 10% or less for poor service. I can tell when you are not doing your job. And I agree with the author that leaving no tip usually does not have the intended effect. Most servers would think you either forgot or someone stole it off the table.
I have been reading a lot of these posts and I have noticed a pattern. There are the people who now work or have worked as servers and they all agree that it is a difficult job. Then there are the people who haven’t worked in the field, but are sympathetic. Finally, there are people like Wade , who has never done it but is an expert in all areas of the hospitality industry. The only people that don’t want to tip are the Wades, trying to justify their Scrooge mentality by ginning up false outrage over some perceived , and probably minor slight.
Then there’s Biff McGuzzle- a guy who attended a prestigious college and has a purported IQ of 140 and “is the smartest guy in a room” (which, when a person says that, usually isn’t) yet his contribution to society with that big brain of his is to wait tables and has been doing it since Jesus was a cowboy. Way to put your fancy degree and mind to use. An IQ of 140 and yet instead of figuring out a way to land a real job you’re in here bitching about people who don’t tip you well enough. Good job buddy.
Actually, Wade, for the most part people tip me fairly well and I don’t have many complaints. Then there are the people like you that are clearly very angry about the idea of tipping. I resent people like you because you are going to look for some obscure reason to be pissed off and leave a lousy tip. I have seen you a thousand times. Saving a couple of dollars is more important to you than being repsectful of people that are commonly treated poorly too many people. I don’t know what you do for work , but I would be very surprised if you took a fraction of the abuse that a server does. As far as I am concerned, the 140 IQ is legit, as are the schools where I went. Phillips Andover Academy and Colby College, a Little Ivy. The 140 IQ puts me in the top 1 or perhaps 2 per cent of the population so that usually makes me the smartest guy in the room, unless of course I am in the room with my family. My Dad and brother are doctors, one sister has her PHd etc. I decided to enjoy myself when I was young so I worked as a bartender for many years and had a lot more fun than you have ever had with that stick up your ass. I wanted to enjoy myself while I still was young. Now, I am back in school training to be an occupational therapist. Don’t worry too much about me, Wade. Not everyone goes to school only to train for an occupation. I had a liberal arts background that has helped me to enjoy life and the world more fully than your narrow mind and pointy head has served you.
What do I do for work? Lets see…I go into a hostile battlefield armed with only an M-9 for use only to defend my patients and my sole mission and goal is to give that Marine enough life until we can get him to the next echelon of health care. I’ve been shot at, blown up, cursed at both in English and languages I dont even understand, bled on, shit on, pissed on, worried about my family while I’m 1000 miles away in some shitty country nobody cares about. I save lives by risking my own. I’ve seen the world (more then you I can guarentee), loved bad women and hated good ones, cried with my Marines, laughed with them, acted as their marriage counselors, psychiatrist, financial specialist, chaplain, father, and brother. Iv’e drank beer with scientists in Antarcica, climbed Mt Fuji, gone diving off the coasts of the Philippines, Okinawa, Morrocco, New Zealand, and Spain. I’ve tread ground where 23,600 of my brethen became casualties at Iwo Jima where I re-enlisted and renewed my oath to my country. Ive also reenlisted in Pearl Harbor. I’ve stepped foot on all 7 continents and eaten dinner in the homes of its people. I could go on but I’m tired. So yeah, you’re absolutely right- I’m sure I haven’t endured the kind of abuse a waiter does and I’m sure you’ve enjoyed the world and life way more than me. I read in an earlier post by you that you have PTSD. Did one of your billionaire customers not tip you? Did you get a bad bag of weed during your Ivy League college days? Your IQ means shit to me. The fact that you have to tout it means even less. That doesn’t equal common sense. I’m sure my combat experience and world travels pale in comparison to your bitchin’ days as a bartender and, for the record, my job in the medical field is higher on the food chain than an OT. Top 1% in IQ and that’s the best you can come up with? Wastin your life in a bar and then calling it ‘enjoying my youth’? Yeah right. You wasted daddy’s money when he paid for your college and I’m sure you tell all your friends how smart you are while you crack them open another beer. And a liberal arts degree? Really? That’s a fucking joke degree and everybody knows it. What a waste man. I’m done with you and all the other retards like you in here.
I’m assuming that your degree is in 17th Century Belgian Lesbian Studies…
You are wrong about a few things , Wade, and right about some others. I brought up the PTSD because it amazes me how people will say things in a restaurant that they wouldn’t on the street. They don’t think that there will ever be any backlash because it’s only a waiter. What will get them their ass handed to them on the street is OK in a restaurant. I would have thought that as a Marine medic you would have had more compassion for people with PTSD . I guess only Marines are worthy of your compassion. My PTSD? I was kidnapped, raped, beaten and left for dead when I was a child. I guess if I was a jarhead, then that would count but to you I am probably just a wuss. As far as getting bad weed, I don’t drink or do drugs. Concerning the IQ thing, I was responding to your assumption that all servers must be uneducated dolts. My intelligence does not define me but you think that I must be an idiot because I do a job that you don’t respect. And even though your IQ isn’t that high, that doesn’t mean shit to me either. I have learned plenty from people of all walks of life. Daddy didn’t pay for college–I did. I also do volunteer work and have saved five lives on separate occasions through medical intervention and rescues from fires. Not up to Wade standards, but not bad for a civilian . I am happy for you that your job is higher on the food chain than mine will be , but don’t people choose their path as they see fit? I could get into medical school but I don’t have the time now. Why were you such a lazy prick and became just a medic? ( Actually, I respect your choice but since you don’t respect other people’s choices in life, I thought I would give you an insulting question implying your laziness, just as you say people are lazy if they are servers and don’t go to school for a better job. )You are right that a liberal arts degree is not worth much if you plan to apply it toward a profession right away, but because I didn’t know what I wanted to do at the time it was the best I could do. Also, the purpose of education is not limited to career preparation . You have had a worthy career and you should be proud of it. The US, me included, thanks you for your service. My job cannot compare to yours in difficulty or meaning and I am sure that not many can. But, I have got to tell you, Wade, you have that really angry at the world Marine mentality. Everyone is shit compared to you guys. I have seen that all of my life and it is unique to Marines. It must have something to do with your training. I will tell you something else, Wade, you have seen more of the world than me and your job has had more significance than mine, but there are people who have had more important lives than you. I understand that it doesn’t mean much at the end of the day if I did a great job at work. You might try wrapping your head around the fact that not everyone does what you do , but they are still worthy of respect. Having seen what you have I can understand that my life might seem insignificant to you, but you had better get it through that jar head of yours that when you retire you had better lose a lot of the anger and disrespect of other people.
From my years as a server as a single father, the formula the IRS will use is/was — take a servers annual food and beverage sales and tax at 12%. So for you that do not like to tip, perhaps it makes you feel like a better/superior person to stiff a server – knowing that YOUR visit could actually take money out of their pocket just to have the pleasure of waiting on you. I would love to see a couple of you try to walk in servers shoes for a day! Laughable. I have waited on people like some posters here, I had no qualms about telling jerks/etc. to keep in mind that I am the last one to handle their food. When I finally was able to quit and move on, I had a few choice comments for customers who felt it was their duty to complain about every little thing imaginable, so one whiner, actually my biggest complainer (for 5 years) would say her coffee was cold 2-3 times a week, even if it was boiling when I delivered it. My last week at that establishment, I took her out a cup of coffee which I had first filled the cup with ice first — I let her know that this is what cold coffee is. Period. She got it. The look on her face was worth more than I could ever express, in addition, she left the biggest tip she had left in 5 yrs.
Seriously? You’ve got to be joking. First off- do your damn job and you won’t have to worry about having money taken away from you. If you do a poor job then it is YOU that took money out of your own pockets, not anybody else. And secondly, if any server reminded me that he was the last one to handle my food I would take that as a threat and I would notify the manager as well as the health inspectors. What’s implied is that you will in some way, shape, or form, fuck with my food. That’s illegal and you’re an idiot for saying it, which I doubt you really did because you would say it once before your ass hit the door on the way out. What you fail to realize is 90% of the world can do your job so telling us to “Walk a day in a servers shoes” is really quite silly. Walk a day in my shoes oh wait, you can’t because you’re not a medical professional or a licensed health care provider. Yeah, waiting table is heaps more mentally and physically demanding then taking care of patients in a clinic or Marines on the battlefield.
Clearly you lack people skills or a knowledge of basic psychology when you describe a woman who complained about her coffee 2-3 times a week, even if it was boiling hot. Ever consider maybe there’s something mentally won’t with her? Maybe she’s depressed and alone and angry and just wants something to bitch about. But you’re last act of macho defiance, your Alpha male middle finger is to put ice cubes in her coffee and tell her that’s what cold coffee is. Bravo you fucking bitch, what a tough guy. I’ve used and have seen used great restraint in the face of an enemy who wants to kill me and my friends. But you take on an old lady with some ice cubes in her coffee. Impressive. I bet your little balls swelled up when you saw the look of utter awe and respect this old lady had for you when you, of all people-YOU! schooled her ass on cold coffee bwahahahahahahahahahahahahah Thank God I’ve never ran into you in a dark alley hahahahahahah. You must have worked at a fucking Chuck E. Cheese cuz that’s the only place you could get away with the shit you describe doing. I bet the kids grew to fear you lol In short- you’re a fucking tool and exactly the kind of people we are describing on here. A wannabe big dude in a little mans body who feels entitled to our money just cuz you showed up to work and graced us with your presence. Take my order, bring me my beer, and clean up my plate.
Messing with food is fairly serious form of Assault, Randy — a “go-to-gaol” offense in most jurisdictions. Threatening to mess with food is “Uttering a Threat”, or if done in the context of extorting a tip, “Demanding with Menaces” — both of which are also serious offenses in most jurisdictions around the world. Had you tried any of those stunts with me I would have no qualms– at all — about taking your threats seriously: and (surprise, surprise!) they would not have resulted in a 20% tip for you. The Health Authorities and the cops would be your next customers, so fast it would make your head spin. That would *definitely* impress your manager.
For those who don’t know, Randy is incorrect about the I.R.S.
8% (eight) is the percentage used. Also, it is based on total receipts of the establishment and then apportioned to the workers based on hours worked.
Therefore, the primary disadvantage is working when business is slow. And since it’s based on total, the effect of one/few customers is minimal.
Thank you for that wonderful story. I love it. There are some real jerks out there that bully servers, I suppose to make themselves feel better but thanks to the other 98% who have some honor and character.
aghhhhhhhhhh
whats all this talk of 20%
i go out to a restaurant and my bill is typically €60-€80 for 2 persons
my stay at the restaurant takes approx 90 minutes
during the course of my meal my interaction with the server takes 10 minutes at an absolute MAXIMUM (meanwhle, he\she is dealing with other customers)
€80 x 20 % = €16 for 10 minutes work (easy work – not challenging) equates to €96 euro per hour tax free
i went to university for 4 years and put up with crap pay as a graduate for a few more years and even now i do not earn anything like that as an I.T pro.
i’ll be damned if i’m going to pay €96 per hour to somebody who has invested zero in his\her profession
Rant over
Why would you think that servers are uneducated? Most of the people I have worked with were professional students. I have a degree in Hotel/Restaurant Management and studied the Culinary Arts. I take courses to keep up with new trends and everyday, there are more wines to learn about. A great server will appear to be doing their work effortlessly. That is the Art of Hospitality. You need a better education as you seem pretty ignorant to me.
i worked as a waiter and bar tender during college, so i know something about the work. we actually had taxes taken out of our paycheck based on what our probable tip income was estimated to be. since, as a result of the withholding, we were paid only a tiny amount by the restaraunt, my paychecks usually ended up being next to nothing, so the tip income was the only reason to work there.
at my first job the manager told me that getting the food
to the table was included in the price of the meal and if i received
a tip it would be because i did something that contributed to the
patron’s enjoyment of the meal. i tried to keep that in mind and usually did pretty well, all things considered.
now when i go out i typically tip 20%, but if the service is not good,
then less, and if the service is so bad that it actually detracts from my
enjoyment of the meal then i do not tip at all. nothing.
in order to charge me for the meal at all they have to get it to the table so i can eat it, so that’s part of what i am paying for before any consideration of a tip.
usually the server contributes something to the overall experience and usually the servers do a good job in the places i visit so i usually give 20%. but i feel no obligation to tip at all if the service diminished the enjoyment of the meal rather than contributing to it… the waiters and waitresses at the places i frequent make a good living because they are professional and do their work well.
Tips are earned period. Don’t care if you have a bad day. I will not reward bad service.
I take the total of the bill, add 20%. Good service, I’ll tip more, bad service, a little less or if I eat there all the time, I tip more because I want good service. At the local bake it yourself pizza place, I get pizza once a week and drop $5 in the tip jar for that $15.00 pizza that I have to bake myself.
Once, I made a waitress cry. We went to dinner a week before the place was closing for good and we left before I realized my bill was much smaller than I had expected. We went back on the last night and got the same, soon to be unemployed waitress who told us that she had mixed up our bill the previous week with another table and the $35 was going to come out of her paycheck.
Long story short, I paid for the meal, 25% tip and an added $35.00 for that $40.00 meal.
They are people who deal with a lot. They deserve some level of respect for trying to support themselves, their families, for dealing with people who feel that they are beneath them.
I often dine alone when traveling on business, and sometimes when I am traveling for leisure or husband is working late. I can not tell you how many servers will treat those who dine alone like second class citizens, not worthy of decent service. I am lucky to get a refill on my drink, or even warm food sometimes. However, if the service is great, be prepared for 30% tip from me…I appreciate the kindness when alone, and that you aimed to serve no matter who it was you were serving. It’s a shame some servers look at you in terms of dollarts and not as a human being.
My Grandfather and English Gentlemen, explained tipping to me at an early age when I went to visit as a teen in the summer. “When tipping a server, either for good or bad service, use a ratio of 1$ tip for every 5$ spent (he used pounds). This way you have an excellent basis for adding a buck or two for rewarding better than expected service, or one or two away for less than preferred service. Don’t deal with change, always round up to a dollar and call it good. This relieves the strain some place upon their brains in trying to calculate a .33 cent tip, and generally earns a sign of appreciation from the server. Coins are heavy and cumbersome at the end of the day.
Finally, before I overstep my bounds, I disagree with the author in regards to how to handle with less then proper service. Speak to the manager, it is their job to deal with the situation, not yours. Avoid a scene, emotion or petty complaints. Just tell it like it is, and leave out “those threats of not coming back unless it changes”. In most cases you go to the restaurant for the food, not the service, that is an “add-on”. Would be most happy to discuss further, either pro or against. Thank you for reading my comments. Andy
I agree completely with your grandfather. Sounds like a smart man. The only reason that I personally like to hear criticism is that usually when a boss tells you what is wrong, it gets twisted. Kind of like that kindergarten game where you sit in a circle and whisper the story in one person’s ear but by the time it gets around the whole room the story is completely different. Either way, whether to me or to a manager I want to know. I accept responsibility for my actions either way.
I am not going to try and change anyone’s mind on their tipping logic. I do have a few points to make.
1. Tax tipping. Based off of the common sales tax rate where I live: .07 times .2 equals .014, this means that at most 1 and a half percent of the total bill goes to tipping on tax. So on a hundred dollar bill that is about a buck and a half… That buck and a half isn’t going to break anyone so why not? It may put a smile on your servers face. If it is going to break you, lay off the $6 beer a little, you can’t afford it.
2. I remember faces. Maybe not names but faces. Last time you were in and left me 5 on fifty and told me how great I was? Remember that? If you need something and I have something to get for another table, You are going to wait. I look out for my pocket just as much as you look out for yours. Want to have everything before you need it? Leave your server 30% and return to that restaurant next week. Watch what happens.
3. The reason that 20% is expected when you go high or low end is that the amount of business directly correlates to the prices on the menu. The higher the menu prices, the less chances I have at making money. If one person leaves a lousy tip, that could waste my whole evening. I currently work at a lower end establishment and like it much better. If one person doesn’t leave a tip, it will not matter.
4. I am not entitled to anything. I earn every single dollar that is presented to me. To Insure Prompt service. Tip me well, and you shall receive. I have plenty of regulars that treat me well. As soon as I see them walk in the door, their drinks are on their way to the table. I know that certain people I can bring beer to like soda refills, and that beer is never empty for long.
5. Please tell me if I make a mistake. If my pocketbook gets hurt, I want to know. I cannot correct a problem I didn’t even know existed. I don’t care about this time, keep the tip. But I want to know so that way I do not make the same mistake twice.
6. I understand that the way I present myself upsets some people. I have fun doing what I do. I am sarcastic, sometimes a little rude, and definitely not proper. Want to hear a great joke and have a little show while you are out? sit at my table. If not, ask for another server. I appreciate that because I will get myself into trouble. My filter has rusted out as I get older and sometimes I cannot catch the words flying out of my mouth. Your food will always be good, I will be there when I am needed and a ghost when I am not, but if you order a beer with a cinnamon/sugar rim and you are a guy, expect to get harassment about wearing your skirt out to dinner this evening.
7. Our culture has set the tipping expectation, our culture allows the restaurant to keep menu prices down by paying waitstaff about $3 an hour. Yes over the last ten years it has increased to about $3. Am I complaining? Absolutely not. I am great at what I do. I create my own business within the business and rarely have to worry about unknowns. I average roughly about $15-$20 an hour in tips. That being said, if you are not prepared to tip 20% for good service, please wait a week and then come and see me. I ate at Mickey D’s many times because although I had $15, I didn’t feel like tipping the $5 I knew I would at dinner. It is not that I or anyone else is entitled to it, but I know I am good. I usually can identify my mistakes. If I screw up, you know that I did because I tell you and apologize. No excuses, I made a mistake, I didn’t do it on purpose and it is being corrected. Then I lower my expectation on that table. I once had a roommate that the first time we went to dinner together he didn’t leave a tip. I asked why and he explained that he just doesn’t. That was the last time we dined out.
8. I tip abnormally high, mainly because I have been there, done that, and still do it. The server may be having a bad day, the cooks may be taking long, or who knows what else. I don’t tip the way I do because I am supposed to. I do it because I have had more than one smile put on my face from the kindness of a stranger. I have watched the girls I work with do a complete 180 from being a grouch to being happy, just because of one generous table. I do it because it puts a smile in my heart that I may have helped someone else.
If I was kind enough to tip you the last time I chose to eat at your restaurant, then you should be grateful. If you retaliate for what you wrongly feel was too small a tip, and give me poor service next time, I will likely not eat at your restaurant again. Sounds to me like you shooting yourself in the foot, since no business can survive without satisfied customers.
You don’t seem to get it. If you don’t tip well, nobody cares if you don’t come back. Customers you don’t make money on are customers you can afford to lose.
No I get it. I will go to a different place to eat. If enough people do this then 1. your place goes out of business
2. you’re out of a job
3. Good places with good staff remain open and thrive
4. You step up your game to get a job at a good place
5, people tip well for good service.
The circle of life, but it only works if people only reward good service. I’ve got my own problems but poor service is not one of them because I choose to not to go back to poor places.
I’m not cheap but my time is valuable and if you wasted it with poor service I can’t see me wasting more with you trying to fix your problems. I will move on.
Very well stated.
Interesting. I usually go between 15% to 18% but I never tip on the total with tax, always before the tax is applied. I believe it’s tacky when restaurant receipts “suggest” the tip amount after the tax. Shrug.
This article probably had the exact opposite of it’s intended effect. Instead of making servers out to be these hard working people who are eager to please, it makes them sound like a bunch of self-entitled brats who feel like you owe them just for the pleasure of stepping into their restaurant. And all this talk of waiting tables being a hard, stressful, demanding job with little pay…..please. You accepted the wage when you took the job, you knew what the job entailed (unless you are completely dense), and you have the right to look elsewhere for work. Most every job is stressful and it’s really tiring to hear how you think waiting tables is any more stressful then the next job. It’s unskilled labor, sorry to be blunt about. I could list a million jobs more physically demanding and stressful than serving and we as a society don’t deem it necessary to tip them. And the argument “Don’t eat out if you can’t afford to tip 20%” is nonsense. How does limiting customers help? What happens if everybody stays home cuz they can’t tip 20%? Your place is empty, nobody gets any money, you get laid off, and you have to find a real job that doesn’t get tipped. Nice logic. In the Navy we had a saying- “Choose your rate, choose your fate”. That means you chose your job so live with the consequences and all the BS that comes along with it.
Thank you for making my point, and in a pithier way than I did!
Leave 20% tip no matter what? What am I tipping for again? I’m already paying the increased price of food for eating out. Then I’m tipping 20% just because? Even for terrible service? This isn’t the welfare line, do a good job and my tip goes up, bad job and it goes down. I’m not your employer, if your not happy with you pay, talk to your employer, or find a new place of employment. I always try to tip generously, but because I appreciate the service I receive when I eat out. But not because I feel servers are entitled to my money because they agreed to an hourly rate with their employer that doesn’t satisfy them.
I think the tip should start at 15%. If the service is poor, be sure it is the waiter/waitress’s issue. Maybe the kitchen is slow cooking. This is when it is GOOD if a waiter/waitress comes around and says the kitchen is busy and it will be out shortly. That at least indicates to me that they are checking on our food. 15% is a norm for me with normal service. If the waiter/waitress checks on our needs regularly, if there is a larger than 4 in group and if the waiter/waitress goes out of their way to help a particular situation, then I will look above 15% and MAX 20%. If a waiter/waitress is doing anything I see and consider “goofing off”, only if it affects our service will I let it affect my tip. BUT “goofing off” is NOT an option if I am the employeer!!!! I also base my tip on the actual cost of food – excluding the tax. BECAUSE some areas the tax is high. The tax is NOT part of what the restaurant and waiter/waitress are providing as food and service.
Leave 20% no matter what. If you get lousy service, don’t go back. If you get lousy service but really like the place for other reasons, ask to talk to the manager before you leave. But don’t stiff the server. That’s just being small, that’s all.
I disagree. You are rewarding shitty service and what incentive does the server have to do any better? By leaving 20% you are effectively telling that server “It’s ok, you can completely suck at your job and I will still tip you. Don’t worry about doing better.” All you are doing is setting up the next customer for the same thing you got.
Why would you leave 20% for bad service? If you have any problem that the server cannot work out to your satisfaction, ask for the manager. There’s NO, NO, NO excuse for not tipping. If the food is bad or took too long, it’s not the server’s fault. Tell the manager. Using these excuses to not tip is just easier than working out the problem. And if you go to the same places, you can know what to expect and so can they. There are plenty of people who don’t tip and we know who you are. Your attitude precedes you. Maybe you bring it on yourself.
I think it’s silly that the waiter/ress at fancy steakhouse should automatically get more money than the waiter/ress at the local bar and grille just because the food costs more, when often I get better service at the local bar and grille… I’m sure fancy steakhouse worker thinks I’m a cheap skate and local bar and grille worker thinks I’m Robin Hood.
It usually averages out that the server at a high end place makes only a bit more than someone at the local bar and grille. If you go to an expensive restaurant, yes, you have a higher bill and 20% might seem like a lot of money, but you probably sat there for hours. Your server may only get 5 tables in an entire night. You also most likely got fine dining service, which is a profession, and requires some additional training and knowledge.
At the local bar and grille, you probably got your food and drinks quicker, and you most likely didn’t sit there for hours. If you did sit there for hours, maybe you made up for it by ordering more drinks. In any case, your server probably had a lot more tables and did not have to give you the same amount of focused attention as your server at the high end place. So even if your bill was say $50, and you tipped $10, ideally your server had a bunch of other customers doing the same thing.
When my party occupies a table for a while after finishing the meal, I always add an extra few percent on top of the tip I’d already left–even if there was no shortage of tables.
Excellent point, RobertLoggia.
I was taught and have always used 15% as a baseline, tipping well above and sometimes well below depending on service. But I’d like to interject some facts to bring this debate a little more into focus. The Federal Minimum Wage for service workers is $2.13/hour but also includes a maximum tip credit to employers making their claimable wages equal to minimum wage (the min wage minus service worker minimum wage=max credit of $5.12/hour: http://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/whdfs15.htm#.UPNksuToQ5M). The idea being to encourage employers to adjust their pay accordingly. If a service worker feels their employer is not doing this than they have every right to seek work elsewhere like everyone else. I have waited and bartended before (several years ago, in fact) and I can tell you I never made $2.13/hour even back then, I made I think $4.25/hr. In fact, each state’s minimum wage for service workers is different (http://www.paywizard.org/main/minimum-wage/tipped-workers) and in Iowa where I live it is more than twice the federal minimum wage at $4.35/hour. In fact, California’s rate is $8.00/hour for service workers (and $10.55/hour in San Francisco! That’s more than I make as a full time EMT without tips!!!)
As far as the standard of tipping above and below, I agree 100% and then some with Dave Danis above. There are a lot of factors that go into good service, and bad. 15% is just my guideline for “adequate” service.
LUCKY……thanks for your input. here’s mine. my baseline for Adequate service is 0% my rate for fantastic service is 10%….sorry to hear about your poor EMT rates
You must live in a state that pays the servers $9 a hour but in Texas, we get $2 an hour plus tips. The guest is expected to tip me for my income, the bussers income, the bartenders income and the federal government. You must adjust yourself to where you are.
According to federal law, if the server’s tips do not bring the hourly rate to minimum wage, the employer must make up the difference, therefore bad tipping comes out of the employer’s pocket, not the wait person’s.
I read quite a few comments covering many aspects of serving & tipping.
So, I wouldn’t post if I’d seen my point already written.
When I managed a computer programming staff and was well-paid for my skills, occasionally I would take family members to dinner. Often at nicer places. E.G., Ruth’s Chris steak house. Prices at establishments like those are above average. When the bill came after we’d enjoyed dinner for the better part of an hour, I’d consider the total and the level of service.
And also think if the tip given the server, who typically was taking care of at least two other tables, should exceed my hourly rate in my professional position.
To summarize, for good service, 20% could be an amount that is low for a low end restaurant. Likewise, 20% could be exorbitant at a high end restaurant.
I agree. I don’t believe that tipping should be based on the cost of the meal, it should be based on the quality of the service.
And to clarify, the tip on a $200 meal for two and on a $200 meal for ten should not be the same.
Just what is different? $200 is still $200 whether there is two or ten. It’s like a commission. We spend a lot of hours teaching servers to upsell, emphasizing that the more they sell, the more they make. It’s what keeps them coming back to work each day. Why else would anyone do such hard work unless they are expecting to be compensated for their time and work?
As a former server (during high school, while in college) I understand the importance of the tip. Tips are a server’s livlihood, hourly rates for tipped employees are a joke and if you work in a restaurant that isn’t steady with business it’s hard to get by. Yes, you have the POTENTIAL to make decent money however at least 50% of the population either doesn’t know how to tip or simply doesn’t care. Serving is one of the hardest jobs out there, it’s physically demanding, you work all kinds of hours, you bust your butt and don’t always get the treatment you deserve. Yes, there are some HORRIBLE servers, and I admit I haven’t tipped a couple of times in my life (you have to be pretty awful to not even get a buck out of me) but there are also great servers that get everything right, from orders to timing refills and they deserve to get the biggest tips. If you have good service, you should be willing to get out your wallet. And if you frequent places building a relationship with a server can save you on small upcharges (extra sauces, cheese, not charging for a soda) and that stuff adds up. If you don’t have the money to leave a decent tip you shouldn’t be eating at a sit down restaurant. And if you have a coupon you tip off the amount BEFORE the coupon! Servers hate coupons — you would think it would signify a bigger tip but it generally never does. It usually indicates customers that are going to nickle and dime, ordering exactly $25 and not a cent more so they can get their $5 off.. and instead of tipping you that $5 they tip you in pocket change which roughly adds up to $1.25. Get a tip calculator app for your phone (most are free for you cheap skates out there), learn how to use it and tip appropriately.
We usually leave 20 percent unless the service is mediocre. Mediocre equals 15. Poor service is 10.
If more people did as you do, you would probably see a significantly better serving staff in the industry. I have to have two tables like you to make up for every one of the cheap buggers that you see on this site looking for excuses not to tip. Your approach is fair and considerate. I am sure that your kindness is remembered by servers where you dine.
Wow, paying someone for poor service.
I don’t agree with the 15% for buffet style dining. I leave a dollar for each $10 (rounded up) of the bill at buffets. And I leave 10% for poor service – after giving the server a chance to correct the problem — if it isn’t corrected the 10% applies. Most of the time I leave a 15 to 20% tip. At lunch, if the original server doesn’t correct the problem, there often isn’t time to wait for a manager — have to get back to work. And the most common problem encountered with a poor server is getting the wrong food — this really throws a wrench in the schedule for dining out over a work lunch hour. How about an article on how servers can earn the larger tip amount — like getting the order right!
The restaurant owners should pay their staff, whether server or cook, a decent wage, even if that means s/he has to put off buying the new mercedes for another month or so. Why should the customer, paying $25 more or less for a meal, have to pay an additional 20% to have it brought to the table? I tip 15 – 20% usually, never less than 15%, but I don’t think it’s right to have to pay extra to have the food brought to the table. Neither do I think restaurant owners should get away with paying their employees much less than minimum wage while working them like dogs, filling salt shakers, sweeping floors, wiping tables — lots more than just serving. Makes me not want to go to a restaurant at all. How about adding 15 – 20% to the prices on the menu and paying the servers a decent wage? Then everybody knows the cost up front.
I agree with most of what you said. While I agree with paying everyone a decent wage, I do not agree with the blanket statement of jacking the prices 15-20% to offset it. There are at least 7 states now where that is the law and the cost to eat out is the same there as it is elsewhere. Competition works.
Second, filling salt shakers, sweeping floors and wiping tables is not “working them like dogs”. Akthough it is not pleasant, it isn’t really hard. It is part of the job. I’m sure you do things in your job that you do not like, but it is part of your duties. They knew what the job was before they accepted it.
Fred, I have been reading your posts. You are a cranky guy who doesn’t want to tip. You don’t want to admit it so you try to justify your opinions. Part of the duties? Hmmmm, like cleaning an old lady’s feces off the bathroom wall? Like performing the Heimlich maneuver on a huge fat guy? Like peeling drunk chicks off the floor in the bathrooms? Like ducking beer bottles or fending off people with weapons? Like asking poeople to stop having sex in public? Like watching people who are selling drugs? Yeah, my job is exactly like everyone else’s.
You chose to work there… you can’t complain when you went out of your way to be hired there. No one forced you to do it. Work somewhere else, where there is no risk of these situations occurring, or quit complaining.
What? Actually, I tip very generously. I just don’t like someone like yourself telling me I MUST tip.
As for your complaints about things like watching drug deals going down, ducking beer bottles or fending off people with weapons, ever hear of 911? What, you think you would get fired? Then what kind of place are you working at?
How about performing the Heimlich on a huge fat guy, as opposed to a small fat guy, well, unless you are a public safety professional, I doubt you are required to assist there. That actually falls under the heading of “decent human being”.
And I’m not a cranky old man, I’m fairly young. And I am a public safety professional and deal with the things you complain about on a regular basis. My advice to you is deal with it or find another job.
Well said.
Then there would be no motivation to do a good job. The tip is shared by many people and remember, if you tip less than 8%, the waiter must pay the tipshare and taxes out of their other tips. On a big check, the server could end up owing more than they made. Not to mention, uniform, parking, gas, babysitter and what about retirement?
I’m going to get called cranky again, but what do you mean that without the tip there is no motivation to do a good job? Were you not hired to do a job?
As for not getting at least 8%, well if you report ALL of your tips, you do report all of them don’t you, and the amount comes up to less than minimum wage, then your employer must make up the difference. I don’t see how you could end up owing more than you make.
That being said, I don’t think your employer would be eager to keep you on if you keep coming in short on your tips every week…
Well said.
If the server spends their time talking to a group or two while I have been waiting to give my order, takes forever to come around and ask if I want desert/more food, takes forever to give me my check, and my beer has been empty for 5mins, why would I tip? The service was garbage and does not deserve a tip. I usually do tip, but some waitresses/waiters are just being super lazy when there were not many people for them.
Why go back to such a place? There’s some value to establishing your own haunts and favorite servers. I had guests that always knew my schedule and came in just to have me as their server. They know that I know what they like and don’t like. I leave a minimum of 15% no matter what. It’s the minimum unless I am ignored completely.
Ok, so I haven’t seen it it so I’ll ask. What about living wage states? in WA, servers make at least minimum wage ($9.19/hr) just like everyone else. So, with the “we have to tip them since they don’t even make minimum wage” argument off of the proverbial table, what is the tipping guideline here? If you tip 20% then it seems to me that you are dreadfully shorting servers elsewhere.
Socially acceptable tip percentages tend to be regional, and reflect local costs and traditions. 20% is likely a high tip average in a full minimum wage payment state. I’d ask a server in the area what the socially acceptable tip percentage is for that area. It may be reduced to 15%, or 18%, but who knows? To be a responsible diner, I’d suggest you ask some servers you trust for some guidance, and take the information with a grain of salt since there’s an inherent bias.
Yeah, but I think my point wasn’t clear. AK, CA, MN, MT, NV, OR, and WA do not allow tip credit for salary. That means they get at least federal minimum wage PLUS any tips. Quite frankly, I disagree with the practice of tip credit to begin with. Why not pay server minimum wage and then tips would truly start being for server, not an obligation. I know, what about food cost? Well, I can assure you that I’ve done a good bit of traveling and pay the same or less for meals in states with no tip credit as I do in states with a tip credit.
And BTW, I know you didn’t mean it the way it came across, but being a “responsible diner”? Really? I just want to go out and purchase a meal from an establishment. It really is up to me whether or not I even leave a tip, isn’t it? Although I tend to go in the 15%-20% range, I will leave what I think is fair. It will go up or down from there.
Most servers expect to earn above minimum wage, so it’s important to factor that into a consideration of earned wages/tips. If servers are left to earn minimum wage, you may find your future dining experiences to be far less enjoyable. That said, inconsistent required compensation across states makes it difficult for customers to know how to tip.
As far as “whether or not I leave a tip”? Since servers are paid by customers, no. It is not a “whether or not” scenario. That said, you as a customer have a great deal of discretion. You can leave a horridly miserable tip. But you should have good reason. A tip should be presumed to be obligatory, though the actual percentage is left to you. You should never leave no tip. If anything, leave a small tip to convey your unhappiness. Of course, it’s best if you verbally communicate your unhappiness to your server directly, and give him/her a chance to rectify any issues.
Customers have the opportunity to tip servers very poorly, and servers welcome that challenge, and good servers want to earn quality tips.
What? Did I miss something here? Servers are only paid by customers by a tip credit and if they don’t make enough of a tip credit to make it to federal minimum wage, the employer is required to make up the difference. Probably don’t see a lot of that since if you don’t make enough, you might be safe in assuming that you are not very good at your job. Please do not be so presumptious as to tell me, or any one else for that matter, that a tip is required. The cost of the meal includes the service. It is MY option whether or not I include some extra for the server. The server was hired to do a job. If they simply do the bare minimum of that job, I really have no complaints, that was the expectation. But do not expect a tip. I do not mind getting another glass of water myself. And writing done my order and retrieving it when ready is something I have no issue with doing.
As for leaving servers to earn minimum wage and the risk of my dining experience suffering, that’s easy… Fire them. We have 7% unemployment. How hard would it be to find someone else to do the job, especially if they were told that unemployment would be cut off if they refuse the work.
All that being said, there is a real easy fix. Pay the staff at least federal minimum wage. If you can’t get that, then quit and find something else that you are qualified for. Whatever you want, but stop looking to me to supplement your income.
Are you trying to justify the states like Texas that pay servers $2 an hour plus tips, are correct in their thinking? It’s modern day slavery. 75% of servers are women and women are second class citizens in Texas and many other Republican states.
All servers in Texas make at least minimum wage: Direct salary + tips + plus employer supplement to make up the difference if needed. That’s the law.
But it is not a minimum wage job for most servers. Minimum wage may be fine for college students who live at home so go to your local places and chain restaurants and tip at least 15%. It isn’t your place to decide what your server should make overall. The only thing you need to remember is to tip 15% minimum.
The only thing I need to remember is to pay what is listed on the menu for my meal. As stated before, I usually tip between 18 and 25%. As you state above, it is not my place to decide what my server makes but it is my place to decide how much to tip. You can tell me what I should do all day long or even what society expects of me but as long as I earn my own paycheck I’ll decide how to spend it and let others decide what to do with theirs (or how to obtain it). When the menu states that there is a required 15% minimum tip then I will either pay it or go somewhere else. Until then I’ll spend my money as I see fit , thank you. If a server’s income is not enough to live on then I suggest they find another income stream. I know of single mothers working at Burger King for minimum wage – if it is not enough for their family, should Burger King be required to supplement their income? Then why should I tip based upon their need rather than the service I receive. I’ll tip according to my determination of good service and you can spend your money how you would like.
I love the way you write and think, mamasnothappy! I am a female server living in Texas and I agree about the second-class treatment in Texas along with its similarities to contemporary forms of slavery. Some restaurants also make the server pay the credit card fees for all their credit card transactions along with tip-outs. I lose 20% of my pre-tax income to that combination.
In Texas, most people know we get live on about half of our tips. The rest goes to tipshare and taxes. They usually tip me 20-30%. I make a lot of money at chain restaurants where the usual server is a glorified busser and people appreciate the service so much more. But the chains expect me to not only be a server but I do the bussing while tipping a busser for not bussing my tables. Then they think I am a floor sweeper, cleanup crew, dishwasher, soup and salad prep and silverware polishers.
In small privately owned restaurants, everyone chips in and does the necessary work but in high volume restaurants, they are using $2 an hour servers to do skilled salaried work for free. It’s illegal, immoral and you trust people like this to run a safe and sanitary operation? Eat at privately owned restaurants and put fast food and chain restaurants out of business.
Tipping is earned, not expected. End of story.
In some places in the US, it is considered an implied contract, and a restaurant can bill you a percentage of your pre-tax check if you fail to tip. This is almost never done in the few places it is allowed because of the difficulty and the threat of customer blow-back.
Gorditas, your earlier comment was troubling…”If I want to take my family out to eat once in awhile to a decent place and I know it’s going to cost me about 100$ I’m sorry if I don’t have 20$ more to throw on a tip, even if its earned.”
You’re fine if you’re tipping 15%. You’re within expectation, and you may be on the cheap side, but you’re allowed to be, and you have a stated reason.
If you mean to imply “why do I have to tip at all”, you’re a total jerk. You don’t extend your philosophy to your plumber or your doctor. You don’t ask these people to do work for no pay. And you wouldn’t accept it yourself. You wouldn’t like your boss to decide to not pay you. Even if your work was not up to snuff, your boss is obligated to pay you for work completed. And then terminate you.
Keep in mind that servers are paid below minimum wage, and that servers face additional complexities when you consider total compensation. Most servers tip out between 10-30% of either tips or presumed tips. If a server’s tip out is based on a sales percentage, that means the server owes the restaurant a percentage of your tip – even if you don’t leave one. Restaurants must report a reasonable expectation of actual tips to the IRS, so they either use a percentage of sales figure or a cash * perentage + credit card charged tips figure. They are then liable for taxes on that tip you didn’t leave. Most servers are also liable for what is typically the employer’s half of payroll tax (social security and medicade), which means that servers pay a self employment tax rate (for most salaried employees the cost of payroll taxes is split evenly between employee and employer). Servers also seldom receive health insurance (until Obamacare kicks in, and that will have other concerns) or retirement benefits, so they shoulder all of those costs. Servers also seldom receive sick or vacation pay, so all of those costs must be covered in an hourly wage.
It is perfectly acceptable to leave a bad tip for poor service. 10% sends a clear message to a server. You can tredge below 10% for awful service, but the reason for your poor tip should me made expressly clear to your server. Once you hit the 10% mark, you’re really entering into territory of taking something that is not yours to take. In our American system of tipping, good tips are clearly earned, and that provides an incentive structure. But it is not your choice to re-write the payment structure of the food service industry because you aren’t in the mood to tip. It’s also not appropriate to feel that servers are paid too well. If you feel this way, then become a server. Servers don’t come to your place of work and refuse to buy a product until you get paid less. Imagine if that happened.
If your service is terrible, explain this to your server first. If things do not improve and/or you do not receive a suitable apology or resolution, leave a 10% tip, or below. If you feel your server did not address the stated complaint, complain to a manager.
That’s the reasonable people do restaurants in the US. If you have a problem with it, open up a no-tipping restaurant and pay your servers a living wage and start a trend. Maybe it will catch on.
But don’t think that you’re entitled to be a cheap tipper because you don’t feel like it, or whatever else you feel, because, no, you’re just cheap. And if that’s the case, then stay home. It would be a lot better to deprive your family of a meal out than encourage your children to develop manners in poor form.
Ed
Probably shouldn’t be drinking while posting on the Internet…
There is no way in hell I am leaving 10% for poor service. I don’t care what other people think is acceptable. It is my money and I will spend it where I think it deserves to be spent. I have no problem tipping for good service but ill be damned if I leave anything for poor service.
The server, like it or not, takes responsibility for the whole operation from hostess to cook and everyone in between. I am will look at the experience at the end of the night and if I am happy there will be a good tip if I am not well there is nothing or little.
I don’t need the servers problems of a bad cook or understaffed/ under trained crew becoming my problem. I do my job professionally and I don’t let my problems become my customers problems and I expect the same from other service providers.
Tipping is earned not guaranteed by me showing up. I am not looking for a reason to not tip but if the service is poor I will not tip and I will not lose a minute of sleep over it.
You’ll note in my comments that I acknowledged the possibility of a tip below 10%. What was really telling was the quote of your previous comment that I copied. Apparently you just can’t be bothered to tip. You say in your latest comment that you will tip well for good service, but I think it’s clear that you really would prefer not to be bothered. If you can’t afford $20, why the heck should you have to give it, right?
Don’t respond to this with some sort of re-imagination of your view. That is what you said in your original quote. In my response, I gave you leg room, and presumed that you could just meant that you don’t like to tip for horrible service. Your energetic response to my comment leads me to believe that you are just…well, dude, you’re seriously cheap.
My energetic response is because you seem to think that if someone cannot or chooses not to tip then they should stay home and I believe that it is not right. Plain and simple
Yes. You should stay home. Giving a poor tip for poor service is perfectly acceptable. I gave you information to guide your decision, with the intent of encouraging you to leave a small tip, in consideration of some of the pay considerations servers face (the greatest one…I never mentioned….that servers work many unpaid hours for cut or on-call shifts, or side-work hours).
If you had a beef about tip percentages and bad service, fine…we could agree to disagree.
But you trouble me with your comment “cannot or chooses not to tip.” Cannot? When I was a server, and had no health insurance, I did not ask a doctor to see me and not get paid. That would be crass and insulting. So, if you cannot afford to pay a socially acceptable tip, I am not asking you to do anything I would not have done myself as a server. You cannot be served in an American restaurant and tip poorly because you “cannot” tip. Your server doesn’t get the same flexibility when she pays her rent.
PS, I’m not trying to fan a feud with you.
Bottom line is that it is my money and i will decide what to do with it and if that makes me an asshole I can live with that.
It’s not my problem that servers work unpaid hours. Lots of salaried people work 60 hr weeks but are salaried at 40hr; it’s part of the job.
If shops charged more for eating out to pay servers better I would still go out to eat. We’ve all got a choice. If servers can’t make ends meet serving then do something else.
A tip is part of the price of the meal. I have never understood why anyone would accept bad service. If you have a problem, call the manager immediately and let them fix the problem. Why would you sit and get angry and accept something you don’t like? There should NEVER be a bad tip if you do the right thing as a guest. It’s your responsibility to complain, the server has just so much latitude in these situations. Get the manager. You cannot use bad service as an excuse not to tip. And stop going out if you have better service at home. You sound like a pain in the
“You’re fine if you’re tipping 15%. You’re within expectation, and you may be on the cheap side, but you’re allowed to be, and you have a stated reason.”
Everything about this sentence is wrong. Customers have ZERO obligation to pay anything above and beyond the price of their meal, period. If they choose to give something extra to a server to thank them for exceptional service, that’s their decision. But no customer is “cheap” for choosing not to do so. It’s not a question of what a customer is “allowed to be”, you arrogant schmuck.
—————————————————————————-
“If you mean to imply “why do I have to tip at all”, you’re a total jerk. You don’t extend your philosophy to your plumber or your doctor. You don’t ask these people to do work for no pay. And you wouldn’t accept it yourself. You wouldn’t like your boss to decide to not pay you. Even if your work was not up to snuff, your boss is obligated to pay you for work completed. And then terminate you.”
How can you read back this statement of yours and not see the logical fallacies? None of the professions you mentioned expect to be given a tip, or any amount besides the stated price for services rendered. And none of them work for no pay, they are paid the price they stated before providing the service, and to which the customer agreed before contracting that service. No more, no less. You’re not talking about bosses not paying their employees… which is the real issue here… but, rather, that customers should feel a responsibility to subsidize the low pay that an employee voluntarily chose to accept when they took that job. That is insane, and no other industry has the gall to ask it, let alone act like they are some kind of victim if they don’t get it.
————————————————————————–
“Keep in mind that servers are paid below minimum wage, and that servers face additional complexities when you consider total compensation. Most servers tip out between 10-30% of either tips or presumed tips. If a server’s tip out is based on a sales percentage, that means the server owes the restaurant a percentage of your tip – even if you don’t leave one.”
Again… YOU chose to apply for the job, and YOU accepted the terms of compensation. You chose to get up every day and go to that job, knowing perfectly well that your job pays $2/hr, and you MIGHT get a little more for doing a great job. If you think that’s unfair, take it up with your employer or work somewhere that pays more, you entitled jerk.
———————————————————————————-
“Servers also seldom receive health insurance (until Obamacare kicks in, and that will have other concerns) or retirement benefits, so they shoulder all of those costs. Servers also seldom receive sick or vacation pay, so all of those costs must be covered in an hourly wage.”
Again… you understood and agreed to these conditions when you voluntarily sought out a job as in restaurant service. If you don’t like it, get a job with a company that offers these benefits. Just don’t expect any tips there either.
—————————————————————————–
“It is perfectly acceptable to leave a bad tip for poor service. 10% sends a clear message to a server. You can tredge below 10% for awful service, but the reason for your poor tip should me made expressly clear to your server. Once you hit the 10% mark, you’re really entering into territory of taking something that is not yours to take.”
Utter bullshit. It is “acceptable” to leave no tip, ever. If you choose to do so, your server should be grateful. If not, your server still has an obligation to serve you to the best of their ability, which is what they were hired to do. When a customer eats at a restaurant, they have a right to the food they are offered, at the price offered, and good service. If they don’t get it, they will eat somewhere else or stay home, which means no more restaurant for the employer OR the employees. No business can survive without satisfied customers.
—————————————————————————-
“In our American system of tipping, good tips are clearly earned, and that provides an incentive structure. But it is not your choice to re-write the payment structure of the food service industry because you aren’t in the mood to tip.”
The “payment structure of the food service industry” is exactly the same as every other industry. You get paid by your employer for doing the job you were hired to do, to the best of your ability. Customers have no obligation to provide “incentive” for you to do better at your job. If you exceed their expectations, they might thank you with a little something extra. If not, that’s on you, not them. Try harder next time.
——————————————————————————–
“It’s also not appropriate to feel that servers are paid too well. If you feel this way, then become a server. Servers don’t come to your place of work and refuse to buy a product until you get paid less. Imagine if that happened.”
The amount a server is paid, be it over, under, or just right, is none of the customers’ concern. And no one refuses to pay for the product, they pay exactly the price for the product and service that is advertised on the menu. The argument here isn’t that customers aren’t paying for the product and service, it’s that servers think that they are entitled to MORE than the agreed price. I am a receptionist… I provide a great deal of customer service every day, and I do a thousand things behind the scenes that customers never know about. I work long hours, often off the clock because I’m paid hourly, and I do it without complaint because I asked for this job. I would never, ever have the unmitigated gall to ask for, let alone expect, our customers to cough up extra cash for me and my employer would never ask it or expect it of them. Your anger should be directed at your employer, not at the customer, if you feel you are underpaid.
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“But don’t think that you’re entitled to be a cheap tipper because you don’t feel like it, or whatever else you feel, because, no, you’re just cheap. And if that’s the case, then stay home. It would be a lot better to deprive your family of a meal out than encourage your children to develop manners in poor form.”
There is no such thing as a “cheap tipper”, only “whiny, over-indulged, childish servers who expect others to pay for their poor choices”. You want the customers to stay home? Fine, then you will be out of a job, the restaurant will be out of business, and maybe you can go work somewhere that offers higher pay and more benefits. It’s laughable that you missed the irony in your last sentence.
Vivian, of anyone is arrogant, it is you. It’s simple: you don’t want to tip, you don’t go to a restaurant that tips. Very simply, if you go to a restaurant and don’t tip, the waiter has to pay to serve you because of the tip out structure. No one wants people that don’t tip to come to their restaurant. I assure you the world will survive if Vivian does not come
and eat at my restaurant. It is people like you who should die terrible deaths.
By the way, how is that hourly job treating you, you ungracious c*nt?
So true, so true.
Ed,
I’ve posted this in reply to other comments, but in case you missed it.
If you, Ed, are a server, then you should know that it’s Federal law that you be paid minimum wage. If your tips plus your direct pay do not equal the minimum, your employer must make up the difference.
Everyone who throws out the “waiters make less than minimum wage” are wrong.
Ed, unless you go to chain restaurants, I guess you never realized that professional servers make about a grand a week. Minimum wage? Who would do this work for less than $50,000 a year?
mamasnothappy,
There doesn’t seem to be any shortage of Servers, yet the unemployment rate is high. (scratching head …)
Comparatively, there are a LOT of people who would be happy to ” … do this work for less than $50,000 a year”
Do I smell hypocrisy? Thinking so.
Why else would someone whine about their working conditions while at the same time being compensated more than most people reading their posts.
There is a difference between being
a Professional Server
and
a Professional Beggar
Hawkeye, I doubt if you could do the work even after ten years of education and experience. You have no idea of which you speak. You wouldn’t even last one shift at a restaurant. Walk a day in their shoes.
MamasNotHappy,
You are correct – I would not last one shift at a restaurant. But the reason would NOT be any of many listed in this thread. No, the reason would be the arthritis I’ve had in my ankles for the last thirteen years.
In fairness, how long do you imagine you would last in a job programming computers?
So, try if you can to walk a day in my shoes. At the end of the day, then go out to eat, enjoy a meal noticing your Server attending to several tables simultaneously. And then consider if the busywork required of your Server should be rewarded with greater compensation than your job provided. Your job having demanded your FULL ATTENTION to result in a computer providing the results your employer required.
It’s a clear case of “The grass is greener …”
And, as I’ve said in other posts – many jobs require hard work. And for those offering higher compensation, many require specialized training and/or higher education.
Twenty percent is TOO HIGH, especially when considering that Servers receive tips from Day One of their employment. Most trades (carpenter, electrician, plumber, etc.) have reduced pay during apprenticeship.
But, hey, keep the tears flowing because I work at the world’s largest paper plant and we’re happy the demand for our tissues is high.
I have to respond to this just because it is amazing to me how many people presume that their opinion is the right one even if it contradicts both the law and the policy of the business being frequented. Disclosure: I waited tables for 15 years at 4 different locations although the 2nd location was for only 5 or 6 weeks (my choice). I am now a Professional Engineer that eats out quite often with my wife and children and I also travel to other countries quite a bit for work. And yes, I AM entitled to be a cheap tipper. I typically choose not to be but if the service is substandard then so is the tip and at some point I may even consider the tip to be nonexistent although I would leave at least a nickel just to get my point across. Have I been called a cheap bastard before? Yes, and I am sure it will happen again – no problem. But I have also been called extravagant for spending over $20k/yr on my child’s private school education. My point is that just because YOU feel or believe a certain way, puts NO obligation on me or anyone else to feel the same way. You listed quite a few expenses that waitstaff have to deal with and they are all, for the most part, true. But what makes me responsible for their expenses? I have an implied social contract to tip 15% on a meal that is served properly and in a courteous and timely manner. Not only that, the decision is left COMPLETELY up to me as to whether that meal was served in a manner that meets reasonable expectations. Who defines reasonable? I DO. That is the basis of the implied social contract. I can increase the tip for whatever reason I deem necessary or decrease it for whatever reason I deem necessary. If any server does not like the terms of that contract then they should have an alternate contract waiting on each table whenever a customer sits down. If I experience bad service and I tip accordingly, I have no obligation whatsoever to communicate the reasons to the server. If the management fails to train them then why should I? My dining experience is not your social experiment. If they do not like what I tip then they should go tell their manager that they refuse to serve me next time. The manager might even kick me out of the restaurant, but I doubt it. Because if I reduce my tip there is a good reason to do so and I will let him/her know about it. And no, I am not prepared to tip 20%. I am prepared to tip 15% for adequate service and I will certainly up it to 20% or more if the service exceeds my expectations. If anyone is unhappy with the tips they are making then they can do one of two things: 1. Take a good long look at themselves and their performance and see if there is anything they can do to improve their customer’s perception of them; or 2. Vote with their feet – the door is that way. As stated above, I have 15 years experience waiting tables and the only reason I got a degree and left was because I wanted benefits to start a family. I loved my job, my customers, and my income was pretty good for a single guy. I had some crappy customers but they were few and far between and I also found that the world reacts in kind to your own actions and attitude. If a server does not have enough pay or benefits then they should find another job. If they cannot find another job, then blame the economy or whatever. But please don’t tell me that I should not come eat a restaurant unless I plan to pay 20% no matter what the service is. That is just plain disrespectful to all of us who ever cared about the service we provided and were proud of what we did. We EARNED our 20% or more. If a server does not want to earn it, then they should at least have the decency to not demand their 15% while they blame their problems on the cooks, the manager, the busboy, the IRS, the babysitter, the system, the government, or (gasp!) the customer.
A man’s true worth is determined by three things: his tipping, tippling and temper. End of story.
Well said.
Gorditasforall, Why would you think that a tip is optional? In what world do you live? It’s people like you that I make sure my manager observes the service on tables I suspect are trouble. Then I add my gratuity. Most professionals can spot you at the door. Tipping is expected. My landlord just doesn’t take your apologies as payment. If you enter a restaurant even a buffet, you still owe the server who cleans up your mess and refills your drink. Nothing in life is free. Are you one of those people that I can’t turn my back on because you can’t be trusted? You steal from servers. That is low.
mamasnothappy,
You should include a Bill for Service provided along with the restaurant’s bill.
That would make the obligation clear.
A tip is not necessarily optional but it is completely left to the discretion of the customer. Therefore if the tip amount is zero then so be it. Granted, there may be an implied social contract but just try enforcing that in a court of law. My average tip is probably between 18% and 25% so if I leave a nickel then there is a good reason. I never leave zero because then they may just think I forgot. On the two occasions that I left a nickel, management was definitely told about it and told why.
When I eat out in my home state, I know that at the very minimum my server is making just over $9/hr no matter what, as it is law in my state that even tipped jobs have to pay standard minimum wage, and we have the highest minimum wage in the U.S. As such, I think 15% is perfectly adequate for decent service, and I have absolutely no qualms about lowering that percentage if the service isn’t good.
And asking for a dust pan and wet cloth? I’ve eaten out with young children on many different occasions, and never have I seen any of them make such a mess that such a thing would be called for. If your kids make enough of a mess that you feel you have to go to that trouble, they either need to be taught better table manners or not taken out to restaurants.
Just curious, where do servers make a minimum of $9 per hour?
Washington state.
Sounds like a wonderful place.
It’s Federal law that all workers be paid the Federal Minimum Wage. If a waiter works 40 hrs a week and his pay with tips does not average out to minimum wage, his employer is required to make up the difference.
I suppose most waiters don’t know this because they make so much money in tips that it seldom comes up.
Yes, the federal law requires all workers to be paid the Federal Minimum Wage. “Tipped” employees are allowed to be paid by the employer a much lower minimum with tips making up the difference. In theory the employers are supposed to cover any shortfall if the employee does not actually earn enough tips and combined with their wages have gotten past the magic number. In reality, by reading many of the comments above and elsewhere, it seems that somehow the tipped waitstaff is “asssumed” to be tipped a certain percentage on every meal they serve when the tip was not included on a credit card transaction.
This is a major pet peeve of mine. When I am paying you to serve me dinner, I expect you to earn my money. It’s your job to be attentive to customer’s wants. I always tip well(20% or more) for good service. However, I hate it when people think it’s stingy or rude to not tip the same amount for bad service. You’re not entitled to my money any more than I’m entitled to good service. But if you want my money, you better give me good service. That doesn’t make me an ass anymore than it makes you one if you refuse to pay a contractor for work he didn’t do. Just because you’re physically present does not mean you’re doing your job.
Careful with that way of thinking around here.
I agree. Chain restaurants have standardized cheap food and poor service for a large price. Most are remotely managed. Go to privately owned restaurants where you can actually meet the owner and the chef.
I tipped 20% once and was asked if something was wrong with the service.
Once? You have only eaten at a full service restaurant once in your life? A commend your adherence to doing the proper thing. Eating out is a great pleasure and you should do more of it if you can afford it. Good job.
I’ve been in the business and done practically everything in it from washing dishes to managing (and sometimes both at once when necessary!) in fast food, fine dining, and casual dining and cafeteria/buffet work, including catering. That makes me a ringer in restaurants and I see stuff most people don’t, and I have to remind myself that my higher standard for service isn’t the norm.
That being said, I start at 20% of what the check is supposed to be, meaning that I factor back in discounts. (I tend to up it to 30% at holiday time.) Servers are completely underpaid for what they do, but then again, most of that industry is. Then I look at the service.
First, is the order correct? As one with allergies, that’s a big showstopper for me: if I tell them to leave something off, it’s for a damn good reason (I usually tell them it’s the allergy and they get it right), and if they don’t, then either the back of the house didn’t read the ticket or the server wasn’t paying attention. If as a customer I’m communicating clearly with the server, then the latter should be minimized.
Second, is the server prompt and available? I drink water like a fish, and my wife goes through the iced tea just as fast. A good server is congnizant of their customers’ drinking pace and reacts accordingly. Glasses should never be less than 1/3 full, and if they have to brew more iced tea, TELL US and we’ll understand. Servers lose more tips from me because they disappear into the void and my beverage runs dry, or they never check on us or our food or ask us about dessert.
Third, is the atitude right? Usually this isn’t a problem, but I for one simply cannot stand it when a server ask if “we” are ready to order etc. as in “Have we decided what we want?” To me that’s condescension and the server is not the one ordering or eating or paying, it’s me. I’d rather have them ask me as “you” as in “What can I get for you?” than that blasted “we” crap. More servers lose tips from me for that, too. I know they’re usually trying to be nice, but it simply sounds wrong.
On the other side, as a customer, it is inherent upon me to communicate clearly with the server, because they are not mindreaders. I ask questions and judge the answers and how they are given–does the server know their menu and how do they react to common curveballs? I for one like a clean table so I tend to stack used plates and trash like straw papers and sugar packets to get them out of the way. Plus, I know that servers appreicate it because it is easier for them and the bussers to deal with AND it helps them flip the table faster. It also inherent on me as a customer to be genteel, as whatever is my problem that day is unlikely to have anything to do with them, so don’t take it out on them.
(BTW, with kids I get a booth and put them on the inside of it so they’re not running around the place like lunatic baboons. That’s simple courtesy to everyone else.)
On the back end, I expect my check to be accurate and I do check it. I also expect them to check my ID on my card since it says to do so, and it makes sense to avoid fraud even if it didn’t.
It really is a two-way street. Customers need to treat servers like people, and servers need to earn their tips by getting the job done promptly, accurately, and nicely.
BTW, IMEO, tips should not be considered income no matter what the IRS thinks, because it is a gift for good service, and as such it falls under gift rules for income–unless one is tipped $16K for service, at which point I want to work where they are. (No server reports all of their tips anyway, nor should they!)
Oh yes, I forgot to mention earlier the very common hazard of dodging little kids while carrying a tray full of food! People, please, keep them in their seats!!
Serving can be dangerous in other ways, too. The kitchen floor can be wet or greasy. I was injured once when someone didn’t clean up grease and I slipped on it while rushing to the pantry area to get some desserts. A cart with a metal corner on it to hold plates caught me on the jaw as I went down and I lost a tooth and had some severe bruising as a result. Not as dangerous as working in the kitchen, where fryers, slicers, ovens and heavy boxes awaited me, but dangerous enough.
I once worked in two places where children were allowed. What a nightmare! One server lost a weeks pay because a child crawled into the main aisle causing a server with a full tray to hit his head after throwing the heavy trays at me to save the child and then went into a seizure and was bleeding on the floor. The family didn’t apologize or offer to take care of the mans tips that he lost for week off recovering. This family had displayed no control over the children. When I receive such a table, I make a point of explaining (as soon as those kids feet hit the floor after seating them), that the floor is like a deep ocean and if they want to leave their seat, they need to have an adult holding their hand. Then I point out the restroom area. The parents aren’t offended and the kids usually listen. If they don’t, I have ways to handle that too. I won’t go into it here. But this is why I only wait on adults now.
As an American currently living overseas I wanted to offer a different insight. In Japan, for example, tipping is not part of the culture, in fact I have tried a few times and they refused adamantly. Similarly complaining is considered very rude and unacceptable.
The mindset here is that they are all part of a bigger entity. Respect and good manners are at the forefront of the Japanese society. If they did tip here it would almost certainly be divided evenly at the end of the day. The point being that the onus placed on the server to perform well largely comes from their co-workers, and it is not the customers responsibility to reward or punish them. Among their peers, not one person should get the spotlight, and no one wants to be the black sheep. Instead, their employers play a much larger role in giving out bonuses to those who have earned it.
One for all, All for One!
Tip or no tip. I think it really just comes down to respect. Respect others, and respect yourself. Seems simple enough, but the world sure is lacking it.
That all sounds well and good but the reason for tip pooling is so that the manager or house can get a cut of the take. And this all working together thing doesn’t work in the stock market nor does it work in gambling, why would it work in an American restaurant? American servers are like independent contract labor. They are there to work as hard as they for as long as they can and make the most they can. Teamwork works with kids and sports teams. Teamwork is a wonderful concept that means no one goes home without making sure your busser has everything under control before you leave and not leaving messes you made without taking care of them.
i think most servers tend to try their best and should get decent tips. i also think though that they should get paid more than $2 an hour, and i for one could not be a waitress. i bussed tables when i was 15 and it was one of the most stressful jobs I’d ever had. ( maybe it didn’t help that i worked with my twin sister though. when we’d work on shift together sometimes people would yell at us thinking we were the other twin and were ignoring their need of a highchair or something, then the right twin would show up with what they wanted and they’d be pretty nice about it, but still- Stressful!) i know a lot of waitresses and they’re all great people and deserve those tips. if you at least don’t HAVE the 20% to give, you shouldn’t go out to a restaurant like that.
Me, my wife, an daughter went out to eat at Carraba’s the other night. Not an overly classy joint by any standards but a decent place with decent food. The server took our orders, brought out two rounds of drinks, appetizers, meal, dessert, and check. The bill was roughly 100$ She was nice and I was pleased but all in all she spent no more than 10 minutes total with us. I fail to see how that warrants a 20$ tip. I’m not a cheap bastard but I work way harder and even bring my work home with me and I am in a profession where I dedicated myself to years of schooling and training and I’m constantly having to read up on the latest books and journals to stay current with my skills. I do most of this at home on my ‘leisure time’. This sever performed ten solid minutes of work and automatically deserves 20$ from me? What higher education did she have to attend? How much time off after work does she dedicate to her profession? How much of her own money does she spend on books and other tools necessary for the performance of her job? She does none of this and when she’s off she is off. And you want to tell me that if I don’t have the 20% to tip I have no right to eat out? I wish I worked in a field where I could set stipulations on who can walk into my office.
You should know Wade, that every single person who has uttered the phrase, “I’m not cheap” Is a cheap bastard. And you should tip $20 on $100 bill because that’s what society dictates for good service. You even said you got good service, you prick. And like I said in my original post, IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO TIP 20% THAT IS YOUR RIGHT, BUT PLEASE STAY HOME NEXT TIME AND STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT TIPPING.
I couldn’t care less what some person I’ve never met is tipping, its just the total arrogance of people (like you Wade) to sit here and defend not tipping, a social contract that most of us accept, and defend their penny-pinching methods by blaming the fact that they are too CHEAP to leave a decent tip on server performance and some vague set of rules they invented.
“I wish I worked in a field where I could set stipulations on who can walk into my office.” – What’s stopping you Wade? Go out and get a server job for a few weekends and see if your opinion on tipping doesn’t change. Everyone thinks they know how hard or how easy someone else’s job is until they have to do it.
“What higher education did she have to attend? ” – Maybe he/she is in school trying to pay for it themselves. Maybe they are college educated and are doing this server job because they can’t find a job in their field. That is the kind of judgement about someone you have never met that disgusts me. Just because they’re a server means they aren’t educated? So I should just assume since you’re in the military that you are a hyper aggressive, who has a drinking problem, beats his wife and then cheats on her wherever he is stationed next in the armed forces?
Dude nice try but you aren’t going to get me riled up by painting all military members as drunken chest thumpers that beat their wives. Seriously? Is that the best you can do to try and make your point? You are the embarrassment.
The fact is tipping in America has gotten WAY out of hand. You can’t go anywhere without seeing a stupid tip jar. I picked up a pizza last night and the counter had a tip jar on it. A tip for what?! For driving myself in and picking up my own food?! You ever go to a fancy hotel? I met a friend at one for drinks and I had to give the dude 5$ to open a door for me. I could see if I had a bunch of crap in my arms but I’m perfectly capable of opening the doer myself. And every time I had to use the restroom I had to give a dude 1$ cuz he gave me a paper towel to dry my hands with. I’m sorry if I’m the only one who sees this as ridiculous but it is. Everybody in America has their hand out for something. Servers are different, I’ll admit. They do work for their tips more so than anybody else. That point isn’t lost on me. My main gripe is that it had gotten to where it’s expected and not earned. I don’t care what argument you make, if you give me shitty service you will get a shitty tip. Point blank. Cry, whine, start an Internet column detailing all the painful woes of your job- I don’t give a shit. You can feel like you are socially extraordinary be used you tip 30% no matter what. Throw your money away, it doesn’t bother me.
You miss a comical amount of my points Tom. I’m not saying a server isn’t educated. I’m asking what higher education do servers have to attain in order to do their jobs? Do they go to server college? Bartenders-sure. They go to programs to learn how to make drinks. That’s all good. But a waitress doesn’t have to spend thousands of dollars on getting an education and certification to be a waitress. That’s my point. Instead of seeing that you went off on this rant that I’m calling servers stupid and then tried to really get my goose by calling me a drunker wife beater in the military. Please dude, that shit might work on you but not me. You just proved that you have no meaningful way to make a point so you go into panic mode and just start throwing out assumptions and calling people names. Nice form bro.
The whole point I bring up my military service is in response to someone who said serving is a demanding, physically exhausting job and that it is a thankless one at that. I described what I have done to illustrate their are way more physically demanding and thankless jobs than serving. And serving isn’t thankless because 99% of people say thank you at the end of the meal and give them money. How is that thankless? Cops have probably the most thankless job out there. Everybody hates them until they need them. I’m trying to give different insights on other jobs out there that are way worse than serving.
Which brings me to my last point- my experience in foreign travel. I bring it up as a way of saying “Hey, these guys in XYZ country don’t expect a tip yet thy give way better service than we get here in America. Why is that?” It’s called looking at things from a different perspective and if anybody had been to other countries they will likely have different views on things. If you ever get out of your single wide trailor in Idaho and actually see the world you might understand that Tom.
A comical amount of your points have nothing to do with tipping your server, doofus. YOUR military service and YOUR job have nothing to do with what we’re talking about. How hard YOU work has nothing to do with tipping your server when you go out. YOUR foreign travels and how other countries tip, has nothing to do with how to tip servers when you eat out here in the US. Do you not understand that? Because you and Chieftain just don’t seem to grasp that point. IT”S NOT ABOUT YOU. God your ego is outlandish. ME ME ME ME
Tipping in the USA is a standard 15%, 20% is a better than average tip. Do you at least understand that? The fact that YOU don’t agree with tipping a min of 15% is what our argument is about. Not any of the other bullshit you keep bringing up and demanding that I pay attention to. YOUR points about YOURSELF mean less than nothing to me. I haven’t talked about myself once on any post. Not about how hard my job is or what I have to do for my paycheck. That’s been all you buddy.
You are exactly the person that I am talking about. You complain about a $1 here and a $1 there. I’m guessing you didn’t even tip the movers who moved you into your house. Cheap people like yourself lament the fact that they have to go in their pocket for everything. Fine, don’t go. That’s my whole point. If you don’t want to tip a doorman, then go stay at a Comfort Inn. There’s nothing wrong with a Comfort Inn and you aren’t expected to tip.
Don’t want to tip 20% then go to Golden Corral or Sizzler or stay home and make dinner. No one is twisting your arm to go to places where tipping is expected. But when you go to the places that expect tips, you should tip. That’s the deal. That’s the only point I’m trying to make.
You can go on and on about your travels and your service and all this crap that has nothing to do with the issue, but seriously, no one gives a shit.
I don’t paint all military as neanderthals, as i said I have plenty of friends in the military. And I said it in reaction to you asking what education a server has to deserve your tip. If you’re too stupid to realize that, I guess I’ll try and dumb it down. What higher education do you need to get up at 5am for push ups or to be an MP? Not a whole lot. Judging by your hurt/defensive reaction I can see you didn’t like to be marginalized and generalized with people in your profession who have acted in that matter. Congratulations that was the point of the analogy. Pull your head out of your ass for a minute and think of that next time you judge your server all night.
There’s no getting through to you and I’m tired of going back and forth with you. Last point- no, I didn’t tip my movers because they broke a 50 gallon fish tank, refused to put together my daughters bunk bed even though I was told by corporate that I rated a complete move in that included re-assembly of anything they had to disassemble, completely fucked my walls up with scratches, put grease stains on my couch, and im finding several things missing to this day. And I also received boxes that I later found to not even be mine. So somebody out there was missing their items until it can be returned to them. The broken items that I’m seeking replaced or paid for is becoming such a head ache that it’s to the point I’d rather eat the loss than continue pursuing it. But, society and almighty Tom dictates I should still tip for that so golly-jee I better listen to them. I’ve already lost about 500$ in damages and repairs, minimum. And you want me to spend more of my money? Only a complete, idiotic fool (meaning you) would tip on that. It’s been fun Tom, but you bore me and arguing with you gets me nowhere.
I don’t make a lot of money. I’m not in a profession that society dictates tip-worthy. I struggle and scrape to get by. If I want to take my family out to eat once in awhile to a decent place and I know it’s going to cost me about 100$ I’m sorry if I don’t have 20$ more to throw on a tip, even if its earned. I’m not going to tell my kids “Sorry, but I don’t have enough money for the tip so we can’t go out”. So don’t tell me or anybody else in here to stay home if we don’t have the money to put 20% down. The right isn’t yours to dictate that to me. I work for my family, not to put more money in somebodies pocket just cuz they brought me a plate of food and now I’m entitled to them and screw me for making the decision to want to provide a nice meal out for my family. A lot of you on here are the ones casting judgement on those that don’t tip well. I can’t afford to tip like society says I should. Fuck you if you tell me I don’t have the right to go and eat somewhere nice every once in awhile. Servers make way more than I do and I’m tired of hearing them complain about tips. What a bunch of self-entitled ass holes. Quit your job and do something else then. I’m tired of hearing them cry about their tips. Boo hoo.
Why should a military member be expected to tip the movers? On average we are made to rotate duty stations every 2-3 years so this often isn’t a voluntary choice. The total cost of the move is roughly $5,000 to bring my goods from the east coast to the west coast. Do you propose I tip 20% on that? Cuz if you do you are on crack. Military movers are notorious for breaking and losing things. My last movers got into a shouting match in my home with my wife and kid there. True, the move is paid for but there are other expenses in my life. Moves usually come around summer time so guess what that mean? I have to buy school supplies and clothes for my children, which with 4 children is quite spendy. Do you presume I skimp on those expenses just so I can tip my movers to feel socially better about myself? Just because you tip doesn’t make you a good person and it makes you no better than anybody else.
I have always wondered this
if i go to a restaurant and have a great meal , drinks, and the service is excellent so i tip 30% on my $50 bill that’s a $15 tip good tip right?
so then i go to another restaurant have a decent meal a few drinks and so-so service tip 20% on my $100 bill that’s $20 tip average tip right ?
but the person who did a worse job got more money , how is that right???
No Tom, 20% is not a social contract that we engaged in when we entered the the restaurant. 20% is the new norm you and many employed in the service industry are trying to shove down our throats.
Most of us really don’t have a problem with 15 to 20% plus if we get great service. I believe most of us RARELY get even good service. I have waited tables at a fast casual business before and could do it again and show many of the current crop of servers a thing or two about waiting tables.
Too many servers expect an excellent tip for providing mediocre service in a dirty uniform. Those who come well dressed to work and do a good job for my table are handsomely tipped. I just resent the expectation of a generous tip for lame service.
Wade, she might have only spent ten minutes at your table, but you have no idea what she might have been doing while she was away. Servers often have to garnish their own plates. They have to bug the kitchen sometimes when their orders aren’t coming out fast enough or are coming too fast. They have to tell the cooks that they can’t serve food that doesn’t look good, so they get it prepared over again. They have to make the coffee, the tea, slice the lemons, make the garnishes for the drinks, keep the ice bins filled at the service bar, learn the menu and keep up with changes. If you ordered a salad or a dessert, they probably prepared it themselves–pulled the salad mix from the cooler (harrassing the cold prep cook if the mix doesn’t look and getting fresh), they probably prepped the cold line with salad dressings so they would have some to put on your salad when you ordered it. They sliced the pie or cake and make sure there were clean dishes on hand to put it on. They warned the dishwasher if these were running low so they would not put the cold chocolate silk pie on a hot plate just out of the dishwasher. If they are any good, they were probably watching your table to see if you needed anything, and you never saw them doing it. They have to tip the bartender who made your drinks and the busser who cleaned the table before you arrived.
Great servers do a thousand little things and do them in quick succession with a lot going on during a busy shift. Yet they have to learn to slow down time when they come by your table so they look unhurried and like they are having fun when they are with you.
It’s hard work. It does require professionalism and the ability to remember many little details about people you may never see again, plus being diplomatic with the host/hostess, the cashier, other servers, the bartender, the busser, and the kitchen staff.
If you don’t want to tip, eat at a fast food restaurant.
Ok, point taken that servers do little things behind the scenes. I’m sure they do and I do appreciate that. And I do tip- I just don’t like to do it. There’s a lot of things I don’t like to do but I still do it. So really me not tipping isn’t the point. Good servers do a lot and deserve compensation. That’s not at issue. Bad servers don’t do a lot and don’t deserve compensation. That is what’s at issue. I don’t care about the busboys, cooks, bartenders or a hundred other variables that go into things. That isn’t my concern and should never be the customers concern. All the customer knows of of they got good service or not. Most times a server knows when there is a weak link in the chain and wouldn’t they make sure that person stepped up their game? If I have one of my junior Corpsman dragging his ass and slowing things up ill tell him and I’ll fix it. Good servers should do the same to ensure the tips keep flowing I would assume.
You assume that the waiter has authority over the support staff. That’s not true. There is no way to get a busser to do his job short of physically forcing them to and you don’t want to see or hear that, do you? Step up their game? It’s just like being in the service except there are no M.P.s, regulations, nor can the server withhold the tip as it is usually automatically removed from our paychecks. Some managements have began to collect the tipshare and supposedly pay the support staff but I saw the bussers checks and they weren’t getting what we were paying out. You may not want to recognize all the little people that make your night go smoothly but you still have a responsibility to tip the server properly so they can pay the little people that you care for even less than the server.
I eat out almost professionally and bad service can always be traced back to some cause that is easily explainable. And if you go out to lunch or dinner during the rush hours, you have a 50/50 chance of having slow service. It is a given. The best time to eat is before the rush when the food is fresh and the servers have time to lavish on you, should you require it. I hope you find a favorite place and favorite waiter that gives you no excuse to not tip.
THANK YOU!!! You are the first person I’ve seen to comment here that mentioned all the other unseen duties a server has to their customers. Those salads and desserts and drinks are all usually done by the servers. All those little extra side items, like dressings on the sides, lemons and limes, and the such, are all done by servers most of the time, especially in smaller restaurants. Customers only see about 1/3 of what the server actually does for them, so can only directly account for their time and service while the server’s responsibility for the smooth workflow of the meal is significantly greater than perceived.
I attended the third ranked prep school and the 15th ranked college in the United States by Forbes magazine . I have a 140 IQ , so statistically speaking, I am usually the smartest and best educated person in the room. I work as a waiter. We have to tip out a whole slew of other staff members and pay the government before we see any money. If I get a lousy tip from a cheapskate like you, who is clearly looking for excuses not to tip, then I can actually lose money. Not just fail to earn money, but have to pay out people after receiving nothing from you. Just because you work hard for your money does not mean that other people’s job preparation time has to match yours. Yours is absolutely the silliest and transparent excuse to get out of tipping I have ever heard. Just admit it, you are a cheap schlep and your friends are embarrassed to go out with you.
If you don’t like the fact that your employer pays you so little, and forces you to pay other people with tips that you earned, then don’t work there. The customer has no obligation to subsidize the crappy pay you voluntarily agreed to accept.
Vivian,
I have a tee shirt for sale. Its caption reads:
ACCEPT REALITY
Many have to accept employment that is well down on their list of favorite jobs.
Consider (which is not going to happen) what you would pay for a meal if the wait help were paid from $7.65 – $15.00 per hour…
I recently enjoyed a catfish dinner for $13.99. That could easily have been $25 if there was no tipping. With the raw materials (catfish and sides) less than $15 or so at the grocery store, many people would, indeed, polish their cooking skills.
Most (I hope…) of us have to work for wages. A great number of us are employed out of our fields because of the economy. (Liberals seem to think they will get back from the government as much or more than they are forced to contribute. But, it’s like health insurance: Out of every dollar in, only about 70 cents actually goes
toward paying for health services.)
Not to one-up Biff, my IQ is 142 and I worked about 25 years as a computer programmer. I suspect I would have earned more as a Server. However, my social security contribution would have been less so my payments would be less. Still, it would be nice to leave my work AT work – I was usually on call 24 X 7.
My participation here is primarily to learn. And I appreciate reading accurate information. And do NOT appreciate misleading information.
One of my co-workers used to be a Server in an up-scale restaurant at what we call a city. (Population under 100,000, but a number of suburbs not included.) And he said he typically took home $100+ most days he worked. So, I asked him why he was now working for $9.00 per hour. He said it was primarily because of annoying customers. His words: 99 percent of them are fine and a pleasure to wait on, but 1 percent are miserable. Since he is more polite and sociable than many, those percentages could change for others.
Lesser factors include schedule changes and uncertainty what his pay would be from week to week.
Your employer is required by federal law to ensure that at the end of the pay period, you’ve made at least minimum wage for the hours you worked.
I am not your employer, it’s not my responsibility to pay your wages.
Statistically speaking those who work in the food service industry and then complain about how it does not pay well are not thinking correctly.
You work in an industry where you leave it up to the customer to determine your pay. Why?
You seem to be unaware of how this works. The server come in, checks her tables, gives instructions to their busser and proceeds to ascertain that all the needed supplies are ready, clean and fresh. They are given the specials to instantaneously memorize. They have to know how it is prepared, grilled, fried, baked and what is in it with special attention to details, get the correct pronunciations and ingredient history. Where it’s from, what it’s similar to and how much of each ingredient is in it. You need to be able to pair it with the correct wines, give options, upsell any side or addition, plant the dessert suggestion after they order so they can take their time deciding. A server in a good house will have at least ten years experience in a good establishment as a server. It takes great skill to handle a roomful of guests and give each of them adequate attention.
I have a degree in hotel/restaurant management, attended culinary school, worked with several world famous chefs and spend a great deal of time learning about the current wines and current trends in food. How do you know anything about your server? Did you have all you needed? If you had a pleasurable experience, she did her job. If you wanted a floor show, you should go to a supper club but it will cost more even if you don’t like the show.
Servers have a limited number of tables and chairs in each station. They are limited by the number of people they can serve. The average number of tables range from 6-9-12 depending on their size. 32-36 seats. You hope for at least one turnover. They have only four hours from beginning to the end of the rush to make their pay. Many businesses keep servers at the restaurant to do salaried skilled labor like bussing tables, cleaning, sweeping floors, polishing silver, rolling up silver rolls and resetting tables. These duties are not part of their job but businesses try to hire young, inexperienced help and then use them to do salaried work so managers can make bonuses for coming in under budget. This is the problem with many chain restaurants whose managers came from the fast food business and don’t understand the difference.
Most servers get few breaks, if any and very few get benefits or a pension or profit sharing. They must pay for their uniforms, special shoes, aprons, corkscrews, tablecrumbers, pens (lots) and a light. They must share that tip with a lot of other people. If you don’t tip over 8%, the server makes nothing. Servers must pay tipshare and taxes (7-8%) whether you tip them or not. If you tip 15%, they make about 7% takehome. All of their salary is paid to taxes and I usually owed more at the end of the year.
On an average night, a server in a FULL SERVICE restaurant expects to make 20% of sales. The owner expects us to sell each person an appetizer, soup, salad, entree, dessert, coffee/cappacino and 2.5 drinks per person. Keep in mind that 75% of servers are women. Many have children and pay a babysitter $5 an hour minimum. Add in parking, gas, uniform, car insurance, phone and that can add up quickly. That is why I cannot figure out why they call it a minimum wage job. I expect to make $2o an hour takehome for a five to eight hour shift. Ferrying sixty to eighty pound trays all night, keeping up to 36 orders in your head at once, knowing when to order and when to pickup, what they are all drinking and eating, remembering who will need what next, how much is in each persons glass, working side by side with dozens of people, all in it for themselves. It’s the most stressful job I know, short of the medical or hard labor jobs. Ask the insurance industry. We are at the top of the list for stressful jobs and we must pay more for medical insurance.
Wade, even in a truck stop you are expected to tip properly.
mamasnothappy – Thanks for your post!
Always good to receive information from folks with applicable credentials!
Since I am close to retirement, I am very conscious of how my income will change. And it will become important to people in service vocations.
I, and many seniors, did not trust the stock market. We looked foolish while others were seeing their nest eggs grow. Now we don’t look as foolish. BUT, my primary IRA CD is going to mature in 2014. It presently earns 3.34% interest. If it renewed today, it would drop to about 1 percent. Guess how my dining out habits will change with my revenue stream outside of social security dropping by over two-thirds?
Consider that thousands of folks are in the same situation.
Kind of explains why McDonalds is doing well and why their Value Menu is a hit …
Low interest rates courtesy of the Federal Reserve are intended to stimulate borrowing. Overlooked is the consequences to savers who wanted the security provided by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation.
mamasnothappy,
” … upon further review … ”
You said:
“Servers must pay tipshare and taxes (7-8%) whether you tip them or not.”
INCORRECT!
8% for tax purposes refers to the amount that must be reported as taxable income, NOT the net amount paid as taxes.
E.G., for a bill of$100, the Server must report at least 8% ($8.00)
as taxable income. The actual tax depends on the tax bracket the Server falls into.
If the Server is in the twenty five percent tax bracket, then the actual taxes paid would be $2.00 – and that means the Server kept $6.00 plus the hourly wage less taxes.
I’ve spent quite a bit of my time. First I merely posted my opinions based on paying tips for almost 50 years. Since the discussion continued and included many points of view, I researched.
I am willing to tip fairly, but misleading information in an effort to pad the pockets of Servers is offensive – and unfair to your revenue stream providers – your Customers.
In Texas, almost 90% of my checks are paid for with credit cards or private accounts and they are recorded tips. I rarely see cash. In 1968, minimum wage was $1.60 and I received $1 an hour plus tips. They paid us $1 an hour plus tips until the nineties when it DOUBLED to $2 an hour.
The busser, on the other hand, receives TWICE the salary of the server and takes about 2-3% of the servers sales whether they get tipped or not. Even if the busser does nothing for you. Bartender gets 1% whether you serve any drinks or not, runners/expeditors get 1%, sometimes the hostess and kitchen get 1% and some charge 1-2% of all charge tips for a finance fee. Taxes are figured on both salary and tips and the IRS assume you make a minimum of 9% whether you make it or not. Every dollar of my salary has gone to taxes and more.
Tipshare is any where from 4-5% of sales and taxes take 2.5% of sales. That is about 7% in taxes in tipshare coming out of my tip.
For an example of excellent service and skills required to be a top-notch Server, watch the following to the end.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150279548106284
It’s a choice to have kids. What does having bills have to do with how much one should get paid? I don’t have to feel sorry for them just like you don’t have to feel sorry for me if I have an expensive coke habit or my monthly payment for my yacht is overdue.
It’s also a choice to get a car. With a car comes gas, parking, car insurance.
What is not a choice however, is how single people have to pay more for taxes even though they use less resources.
Another example is health insurance, where healthy people have to pay the same amount as people who get sick often.
Not to one up Biff or Hawkeye, but my IQ is 14 so statistically speaking I am usually the biggest dumba** in the room. But I can’t help but wonder: Why would anyone stay in a job in which they are not being adequately compensated? If the reason is because you cannot find anything else then how is that the customer’s fault? I have 15 years in as a waiter and I never had to look for a job too hard except when I first started. I also made good money for a single guy in the nineties. Was it stressful? Sure, but my job now as a Professional Engineer is much more stressful. And the great thing about my service job(s) was: 1. It required no specific formal education or even a high school diploma. I had it but it wasn’t necessary; 2. The schedule was somewhat flexible meaning I could work around school or hangovers; 3. I was almost always compensated based upon how well I served (or failed to serve) my customers. Was my manager a prick? Of course, but that is mandatory for all waitstaff managers I think. Were there benefits? No, but what person in their twenties worries about getting sick? (Except for said hangovers.) My point is that waiting tables is a great job for younger people who do not need benefits or even older people if you have a spouse to provide benefits. If you need benefits and you’re in the service industry then, except for a lucky few, you’re probably in the wrong field. You can make a good income with it but don’t expect benefits. Not only that, you can complain about your rude and cheap customers to OTHER SERVERS all night long after your shift is ended. But for goodness sake, if you really have any work ethic, why would you take your frustration out in a public forum where the vast majority of people (statistically speaking) will be customers and not servers? Why shine more of a bad light in a forum where it is obviously such as hot topic? Do you think that since you are anonymous on here that people will only take out their anti-waitstaff frustration on someone else? It all comes around people! Instead of coming on here and condescending to everyone; “You seem to have no idea how this works”, Why not try to respectfully educate the masses so that they come away with a positive outlook on waitstaff rather than a “They are all whiny, entitled, and overpaid!” outlook? Like I said, I spent 15 years as a waiter but even I think it’s a whiny entitled industry after reading these posts. If you do not have enough pay or benefits then find another job. If you cannot find another job, then blame the economy or whatever. But please don’t tell me that I should not come eat a restaurant unless I plan to pay 20% no matter what the service is. That is just plain disrespectful to all of us who care about the service we provide and are proud of what we do. We EARN our 20-25%. If you don’t want to, then at least have the decency to not demand your 15% while you blame your problems on the cook, the manager, the busboy, the IRS, the babysitter, the system, the government, or (gasp!) the customer.
Excellent post with pretty complete breakdown of the server worklife and workload. You made the case pretty clear for why servers deserve to be properly compensated for their time and efforts by those they are serving to the best of their abilities.
Wade, how do you figure that 10 minutes at your table means only 10 minutes spent working for you? Most of the work a server does for you is done AWAY from the table.
In fact, much of the work is done before you arrive and after you leave. A server is typically working an hour or so before they get a table, and an hour or more after their last table leaves, all for a small fraction of minimum wage.
It’s certainly true that some occupations require a lot of work for low pay. But you can’t pay others for their services based on your own occupation’s pay scales. If you believe a given occupation is overpaid, you can avoid hiring them, but you can’t underpay them because you think their overpaid.
For example, I can’t hire someone to fix my roof and then underpay them if I don’t think roofing is worth the going rate. If I think the going rate for roofing is too high, I can try to fix my own roof or let my roof go unfixed, but I can’t hire a roofer and then underpay him.
Also, a study showed that the two highest-stress jobs in America were surgeons and restaurant servers. To hire someone to endure that level of stress, you have to pay them enough for them not to all go find other jobs.
I was a restaurant waiter and manager for 6 years. These days I’m a software programmer. I sure wouldn’t want to go back to that level of stress.
Most servers probably don’t want to be placed on better wages cuz they make way more money in tips than they would if they were paid 8$ an hour. That’s what makes this whole article ridiculous. Give a server a choice; work for 2$ and tips or I’ll pay you 10$ and hour without tips and I bet an overwhelming majority would stick with the 2$ an hour and tips.
And you would see what kind of service you would get for that price. In America restaurants run on the practice that customers don’t pay a whole lot for the food, because some of the costs they pay are for servers who do other work in addition to serving it, as I mentioned above. If you want the restaurant to hire another person to slice the cakes and pies and plate them, make tea, coffee, prep garnishes, cash out your check, run plates back and forth from the dish machine to the serving area, etc., your bill would be much higher. What would it cost you to prepare, serve, and clean up after the $100 meal you had? If you want to save money, prepare it at home. If you want someone to prep and serve it to you, leave a tip. Or tell your server upfront (as I had people do) that you don’t believe in tipping. You will still get service–but it probably won’t be very good. But at least you will have the satisfaction of knowing that you are being honest. People who get good service and don’t leave at least a 15% tip are cheaters in terms of a common social contract. Like it or not, that’s the way it is in this country. There is no shortage of other family restaurants where you can eat without tipping. I agree with you that a place where they don’t provide service shouldn’t have tip jars by the register. That makes no sense to me.
By the way, I tried to give good service to the people who told me they didn’t believe in tipping, because I wanted to be professional at work. But if it came down to getting something for them first versus another table, no way! And the known cheap tippers generally got bad tables, the most inexperienced servers, and less attention than other customers. That’s human nature.
I agree with some of what you say. I don’t always agree that having servers work mainly for tips keeps costs low. Food is still overpriced in a lot of places. I think some people would rather pay more and not have to worry about factoring in a tip. It takes away all of those variables and a person can just sits down knowing all they have to worry about is enjoying their meal. Also, how do you feel about the % of tips increasing? What I mean is a lot of people are saying 20% is the new standard whereas 15% used to be? Why raise the accepted % of tips when the items on the menu are already adjusted for inflation? That’s what we tip on, isn’t it- the total cost of the meal? And how do you feel about tipping on only the pre-tax amount since the restaurant doesn’t get the tax money anyways?
I agree that 15% is the standard, not 20, and you should tip on the pre-tax amount. It would be better if the restaurants just raised their prices and paid servers a wage. It is difficult to figure out how much to tip, and as a server, it was very stressful wondering if you were going to get them. I don’t think food is way overpriced in restaurants. Alcohol and sodas are: that’s where they make their money. Restaurants that don’t serve alcohol operate on a very thin profit margin most of the time, and it’s a hard business to make a living in.
But as long as we have the system we have, I think it’s unfair to tip less than 15% for good service.
Restaurants that serve alcohol usually do not make money on their food. They make their money by serving booze. Food is rarely overpriced. You may think it is overpriced, but there are a kitchen full of staff preparing it. There is rent or mortgage on the property. Taxes. Equipment. Uniforms. Cleaning bills. Insurance. The list goes on and on. That is why a visit to a restaurant can seem pricey, but believe me, most of the places where I have worked only want to break even on food costs.
One other note, the reason that the standard should be closer to 20% than 15% is that servers always receive the minimum wage wherever they work. 2.13 an hour in Massachusetts or 9.04 in Washington. Your pay goes up as time passes, why should mine remain stagnant? By the way, I made as much money in dollars in the 1980s as I do today. That means my real income has gone down over the years. Do you people really worry so much about a few dollars to a server when you have just stuffed yourselves and shelled out $300 for a meal?
Do you have any idea how much it cost to run a restaurant and keep experienced, talented employees AND make a profit. The price of food has barely changed in forty years. You could get a good meal for twenty dollars in the sixties and if you know where to go, you can still get a great meal for twenty dollars. These chain restaurants hire many inexperienced, uneducated young people and run through them like tissues. It’s hard to make a privately owned restaurant profitable and if you do, it’s because the owner is front and center. The manager or the owner answers each phone call personally during business hours.
Just remember, 20% is a gratuity, 15% is a tip and anything less is a reflection on your Mama. Or a true man’s worth is determined by three things, his tippling, tipping and temper. I never met an Irishman or Irishwoman I didn’t like, after a few beers.
I was a server for ten years. I disagree that you should clean up your own table. However, if you or your kids make a more than normal mess, you might consider leaving a larger tip for the extra trouble of cleaning up. I remember with fondness some regular customers with a bunch of kids. There were always lots of napkins left on their table, the occasional spilled drink, and french fries or other food that landed on the floor on their visits. They tipped accordingly.
I, too, have noticed a decline in service standards. Customers should be greeted promptly, have drinks and food served on their schedule (some are in a hurry, some enjoying a leisurely meal, and you should use your server skills to find out the difference) and have the check brought and cashed out quickly after it is requested. I often order my salad first and my meal later because I want to actually finish the salad before the meal comes. I hate the rush-rush of a server trying to turn the table. But, as a customer, if I want to eat slowly and visit with friends, I tip more because the table could have been turned once or twice while I sat there.
My pet peeve is servers not checking back soon after the food is served to be sure everything is all right and if anything else is needed. Another problem is not clearing plates.
A great server is there when needed and unobtrusive when not needed. That being said, when a restaurant is particularly busy, customers should do their part by: listening up when the server goes over the specials, asking for needed items when their server is near, and deciding as a group ‘are we ready to order or do some of us need more time?’ and not leaving a server standing there for five minutes while you decide.
Saying ‘please’ and ‘thank you’ are basics, yet many people I know who are ordinarily very polite don’t use their manners with servers. “I would like the special, please” is much nicer than “I want the special.” You wouldn’t talk to anyone else that way; don’t treat servers with rudeness just because you can get away with it.
I worked hard for my tips. I was young, and at the end of a busy shift my feet and legs would be very tired from all the running around I did. I liked making people happy and I made good money doing it. Usually tips averaged out to about 12%. I had to pay taxes on estimated tips, which at the time (the 80s) were calculated at 8%. So, if I made less than that after tipping out the bartender and the busser (I was expected to give each of them 10% of my tips, so I only kept 80% of my tips), I paid taxes on income I did not earn. When you get good service and you don’t tip 15%, to me it is the equivalent of not honoring any other contract you’ve made or a bid you’ve accepted from a contractor. You are a dishonest person if you go to a restaurant, take service, and then say “I don’t believe in tips.” If you get bad service, talk to the server, then the manager.
While it’s busy, servers, you don’t check your phone or go smoke or do anything else, because you are earning money. Wait until the restaurant slows down to do those things, the same as you would at any other job.
I start out at 20 percent and go up or down as well. Take too long to refill my soda, that will cost you a few percents. It is not a difficult job. I DESPISE how they think they are entitled to a minimum of 15 percent.
I know they claim that they tip out other people, but I have worked in the business as a cook in college, and I can tell you from experience that servers barely tip the cooks. Who did all the work preparing that meal that you are eating? The cooks, not the servers. A well-trained monkey could bring your food to your table, however I doubt a chimp could get your New York strip medium-rare.
Cooks are underpaid and deserve a greater portion of the tip than servers!
With all this being said, I average well over 18 percent when I tip. However, it still pisses me off when I hand over $10 on a $50 bill. There are people who do a whole lot more and make a lot less. Again……SERVERS ARE OVERCOMPENSATED!
When I worked in the kitchen, I made $10 an hour. When I waited tables, I made $2.15. I don’t understand the logic behind tipping the cooks. They make a guaranteed hourly wage. If any trained monkey could be a great server, why didn’t you leave the kitchen and get an ‘overpaid’ server job?
Cooks gave me a lot more trouble as a server than the busser or bartender. Sometimes they made life unpleasant when I told them I could not serve subpar food to my customers, or didn’t turn the food out at the same time so some of it sat in the window getting cold.
How much did you earn an hour on tips?
I had to come in an hour before any tables got seated and do prep/sidework, learn the drink specials, food specials, etc., and sometimes stay an hour or more after my last table to do closing/sidework duties, so for those hours I only made $2.15. On Friday or Saturday nights or Sunday brunch, I did really well and could sometimes make a lot of money per hour. But you didn’t just have to work those days. You had to work Monday lunch, where you could come in at 10, not get a table till 11:15, then, if it was slow, you could get sent home by 1. So I had to dress, get to work, etc., only to be sent home sometimes with $10 in my pocket. And, servers didn’t get 40 hours a week like the kitchen staff or cashier, and we didn’t get to work the ‘good’ shifts like Friday, Saturday night or Sunday brunch until we got good at our jobs, plus, where I worked, we had to go through a 4-week training class at minimum wage and shadow other servers until we ever got to wait on our own tables.
Because I was very good at what I did, I was rated second after about a year on the job and got mostly good shifts. I made good money for the 1980s. But I got very tired of the uncertainty week to week and frankly, the job was very hard. Football weekends were the worst. Nothing like waiting on drunken Kentucky fans after they’d lost to Tennessee. I decided I’d be happier if I moved to the kitchen, where I could work days only and not spend the best parts of the weekend at work, and would know how much money I would make every week.
You didn’t address my question to you, which was, if you think waiting tables was so easy, why didn’t you quit the kitchen and work as a server?
Servers are overpaid is pure BULLS—T!. I worked for 19 years in a fine dining establishment. I never got a paycheck because it all went to the taxes for my tips. I also always owed the state more taxes. Every night I worked I had to pay out to the busboy, 10% for bar transfers and also 2% of all my bar sales. So let me tell you , I could have once and a while have a really good night like say $150-$200 around Christmastime, but by the time I paid out I ended out walking with about half. Then I would have to go pick up the kids and pay the sitter another $25.
I have been a bartender and server for over 30 years, mostly in four star hotels. Only once in those 30 years did I earn more than 30,000.Two years ago I was a waiter at a five star hotel in Aspen. I made 26,000 for the year. I waited on more billionaires, movie stars, and politicians than I did everyday people. I have great respect for a talented cook who does a difficult job, but they don’t have to deal with people with attitudes. Servers in most restaurants are not overpaid–that is just ridiculous. After I tip out my bussers, bartenders, kitchen staff, and sometimes a hostess, then Uncle Sam has his hand out. I usually end up tipping out around 35% and the the government wants 15% of what is left. If you tip me $20 on a $200 check( 10% ) I make around $11. Most restaurants offer no health insurance or any retirement plans. I have an overwhelmingly positive experience with my guests, maybe because I work hard for them and I know my business. I do better than most servers financially, so that means a lot of them make significantly less than my recent 26,000. However, there are enough people that take pleasure in being rude to waitstaff. My favorite is the guy trying to impress his girlfriend by dumping on me. Some people will say things to waitstaff that they would never, ever dream of saying to a person out on the street. If their steak is cooked incorrectly they do not hesitate to act like their mothers’ virtue has been sullied. A little tip for you potential rude customers- I have PTSD and I really have to struggle sometimes to not knock that sneer off your face. I am not anybody’s whipping boy and you should treat me just as you would like to be treated had you screwed up something at your job. Some people manufacture an issue to get free food or not tip. They say how horrible things were, then we see them back every week. Or they mistakenly pick up the entire check and both credit card slips. Invariably, when I am able to catch up to them and request one of the signed slips, there is no tip written on it. Yes, there are some lousy or lackadaisical servers, but that is because we make so little money as an industry. If the job paid better there would be more talented people in it.
Wow Biff, you need to get into another line of work! In my years of waiting, I never did less than 20k and the average is closer to 50k. And that was from 1988 to 2002. And while I had some cheapskate and rude customers, they were the exception, not the rule. I suggest you do one of two things: 1. Take a good long look at yourself and your performance and see if there is anything you can do to improve your customer’s perception of you; or 2. Vote with your feet – the door is that way. I have 15 years experience waiting tables and the only reason I got a degree and left was because I wanted benefits to start a family. I loved my job, my customers, and my income was pretty good for a single guy. Like I said, I had some crappy customers but they were rare and I also found that the world reacts in kind to your own actions and attitude. Commenting that you have PTSD and you have to struggle not to knock a sneer off someone’s face – that might indicate why you don’t do so well. Just sayin.
I have been amusing myself with this for awhile and had no intention of commenting until I read what you wrote. You absolutely have no idea what you are talking about. I am an educated server/bartender and proud of what I do. I work in a fine dining establishment in my town and a well trained monkey could not do what I do. Maybe your ignorant comments annoy me more because I’m coming off of two fourteen hour days of extremely hard work. I very much enjoy what I do and I think that its conveyed to my guests. I guess that is probably why on any given night my bar is full of regulars who come in to see me. Everyone of their smiling faces and hugs are worth the one stupid B who flings their purse at me to put on the other side of their table for them (yes, that happened yesterday) I am a server, not a servant. I am their to make sure you have good time but keep in mind, because this fact seems to be lost in this whole thread, I AM A HUMAN BEING! I am so sick of people thinking they can just dump on servers because they can. You have no idea who is on the other side of the table and guess what? Neither do I. I won’t take my bad day out on you so please don’t misdirect your hostility onto me. Any server who is a professional is a hard worker and cares. If you have a bad experience don’t tip and don’t go back but why sit here and bitch about it? If you think servers are that overly compensated stay at home and cook for yourself. I think that there are a lot of professions that people are overcompensated but serving is not one of them. I don’t know where all of you people are eating that makes you so upset to tip but I suggest finding somewhere else to dine.
I can’t help but think that the thread of this conversation got lost somewhere. No one on here is saying that servers are overcompensated – I least I don’t think so but I haven’t read each and every post. I think the anti-server comment is about the author that claims her tip is a right and that her customers have a responsibility to clean up after themselves. I disagree completely. Like you, I loved my job in the service industry when I did it and my customers were generally happy and satisfied people but I felt that each tip was earned. I was proud of what I made which was a pretty good income for a single guy in the nineties. No one GAVE me anything – I EARNED it. As far as anyone thinking they have a right to dump on their server or be rude? Forget it! Those people aren’t worth thinking about and luckily the vast majority of people aren’t like that. Those that were might have ruined a minute or two for me but they couldn’t ruin my day. Only I could do that. To borrow (and modify) your closing statement: “I don’t know where all of you servers are working that makes you so upset to wait tables but I suggest finding somewhere else to work.” I worked 4 restaurants in 15 years and loved 3 of them. The 2nd one lasted for 4 weeks (my choice).
Tom represent the exact mindset that is wrong with waitstaff – an entitlement mindset. “Tip 20% or don’t go out” Yikes. Another server who thinks customers are there for HIM and not the other way around.
I am not a server Nunya, but if you think people don’t frequent a place b/c they have a favorite server or bartender than either you aren’t old enough to frequent restaurants/bars or you are oblivious.
Lots of customers ARE there for the servers. There are a million bars/restaurants out there, why do you go to your favorite? Probably because people recognize you when you come in or say hello and ask about your day. I guess that doesn’t matter to you either though. The general warmth and friendliness of your local place isn’t enough to get you to open your purse for an extra 3 bucks.
You are the kind of person that should stay home.
No server likes to wait on tables of people who are grading their performance or looking for any excuse to shave a buck off the tip.
My saying, “tip 20% or don’t go out” really means that when you go out, you should enjoy yourself. You’re not judging figure skating finals and handing out grades. If you get terrible service than by all means leave a tip you feel reflects that. If you have a nice meal and a good time then show a tip that reflects that. Don’t be constantly looking for ways to admonish your server and ruin their night because you had a lousy day at work. I wouldn’t expect you to understand Nunya just insult me a few times and make yourself feel good.
“No server likes to wait on people who are grading their service”? So wait, own the big argument by servers that customers should take into account customer load, shortness of staff, slowness of chefs & bar tenders etc etc and a million other reasons why they might be having a bad night but we can’t grade them on their performance? Which is it? Make up your mind. Am I going to grade you using a pre-fabricated check list? No. Will I make a mental note of some of the above things and have some sympathy and understanding? Yes. But if you’re gonna tell me to take all these things into account but I’m not able to judge a server on their performance is retarded.
And you were the one, Tom, that kicked off your rant to Dave being insulting so don’t whine about nunya or any of us dishing it back to you.
Believe me, I don’t take any of this personally.
I don’t recall whining about anything anyone said. I disagree with most of it, but whining? Doubtful.
I think anyone who goes into a restaurant to eat deserves good service, regardless of problems or business or whatever. And their service requires a tip. Yes, I believe if you go out to eat, you are required to leave something extra. How much extra is up to you, but most of the people on this thread seem to take joy in holding tips over their servers heads or demanding a certain level of service. MY server needs to do this, and MY server needs to do that and I’LL report bad service. Get over yourselves.
You told nunya to go ahead and insult you to make him feel better like you’re taking the high road and weren’t the one that came out insulting Dave from the jump. It’s not whining but it’s the same as a bully who throws the first punch and then gets upset when his ‘victim’ fights back. I’m not naive. I know the game you were trying to play and it didn’t work out your way so try to be indignant all you want.
As a matter of fact, I do tip well. Too well I realized, and that’s the whole reason I even posted on here to begin with. My wife constantly tells me I over tip and I realized I did it out of pressure to not look like a cheap skate even in the face of bad service. And it made me realize I work for my money just like everybody else and nobody in their right minds would pay full price for half the product. If you buy a case of beer but there’s only 19 of them in there would you pay full price if the cashier shrugged his shoulders and said “Service charge. The extra money goes to the people who brewed and canned it.” No. It’s the same principle. I don’t sit here and say my sever better do this and that or I’ll report them. I don’t disagree with those that do, that’s their right. We get judged by the level of service we provide to our customers so why shouldn’t servers? I’m in the health care field now. If I half ass my job and prescribe penicillin to a person who is allergic just cuz I didn’t feel like doing an allergy check that could kill that person. If I misdiagnose an inflamed lymph node for a cyst and decide to cut it out cuz I didn’t do a thorough exam then my ass would be hung out to dry. I don’t get to take a play off in my job. If a server just feels lazy and doesn’t want to move with a sense of purpose that’s cool, I will live if my water isn’t topped off or even if my food is cold. But there’s no way I’m tipping them 20 percent. I don’t expect a lot, I promise you that and I pride myself on being a good customer who is polite and appreciative to my server. I’m not a cheap skate and I usually over tip. But why? Cuz I feel guilty and pressured. Is that a good reason?
Just possibly you *should* take some of this feedback to heart, Tom — because you come across as a very silly and arrogant man. You began this dialog by trying to belittle Dave Danis with your post, and behold! — you invoked the Ire of a whole bunch of others who called you out for the pathetic whingeing bully that you are.
“Society” does not “dictate” anything to me, or to anybody who — like me — earns his/her own money honestly, the hard way. “Service” does not “require” a tip, sonny. The sooner you figure that much out, the better your life will become.
Nobody tips me for my work — and nobody would dare patronize me with a Tip: I have Self Respect, and that’s its own reward: I do not require a bribe to do my job properly. It would *never* happen in this lifetime because I will never allow that to happen.
If you want to pretend to be Little Lord Fauntleroy and tip people you believe to be your Servants, then more the fool you. And more the fool them for letting you get away with it, without giving you a jolly good piece of their mind afterwards.
@ Tom – I will say you haven’t gone postal on anyone, despite the contrary views. So kudos to you.
I waited tables for one summer during college (there wasn’t a return:) so I have an appreciation for what the author is trying to convey. I start at 20% and adjust from there based on the experience. For the most part, everyone gets 20% unless it was really fantastic or terrible service.
However, on the whole I found that the average tip/revenue ratio always found its way to an average of about 13%. Some nights were better, some worse, but it came pretty close. For every person who leaves 0% there was someone who left 30% (or more) with most falling around 15%. This was 15 years ago so that number may be better now.
The article seems to carry that cry of “Everyone should tip 15% because we only make $2/hr.” That’s BS. It’s a game of numbers and averages. Not everyone will tip, but there are those who will make up for it.
I also disagree with the point about patrons cleaning up after kids, etc. This is just an occupational hazard. I have a young child, and my wife and I do clean up after her because that is how we are. However, the waitstaff should not EXPECT it nor complain if a child makes a mess.
As a patron, I will tip, and expect to, but I won’t tolerate rude waitstaff either. It’s not my responsibility to make up for your shitty day.
That being said…
I do think that, in general, the public is just less polite to one another. Everyone deserves to be treated with respect. I still recall a situation where during my brief stint as a waiter I walked up to four middle-aged men, who I assume were co-workers, who had just been sat and were looking at their menus. “Hi, what can I get you to drink?” The response, “Get the fuck out of here.” I can’t recall if they left a tip, but that was definitely one of the many moments that made me decide the service industry was not for me.
Cheers
I rarely have bad service. There was one instance recently but I wasn’t paying and was on a first date so didn’t say anything. (offered to split it, whatever)
Most of the time however, servers are nice and do their best. I don’t try to nickel and dime their tips and I don’t think it’s really appropriate to be so penurious about a gratuity.
one last thing… the author of this article seems to think its is the patron’s duty to walk in and THINK about the waitstaff. Have I cleaned my table up for them? Am I being nice to them? Making Them happy? How can I make their day better? Bullshit. Patrons dont OWE the waitstaff ANYTHING. Yes, be polite and courteous. Of course! Yes, you should have already taught your kids manners.
Bottom line….The patron is there as a customer to be SERVED. Get used to it. Its CUSTOMER SERVICE not the other way around. The author has some kind of ‘entitlement’ menatality that the server is DUE something as a server. again i throw the bullshit flag. I’m not saying you can come in, act like neanderthal with your savage kids. Patrons can be civil decent human beings. They just dont OWE anything to the establishment. its the OTHER way around.
Well put. I don’t give a sh*t about the day to day operations of the place I choose to eat. Not my concern. I do notice when it’s busy, and I can appreciate that fact and I take it into consideration. But I have no responsibility to the staff or establishment whatsoever other than to act like a decent human. That’s it. Everything else rests on the managers shoulders. I’m done feeling like I owe them anything or feeling bad for asking for a refill on my water. I’m holding everybody who is accepting my hard-earned money accountable for what they promise to and are supposed to provide. My trash man handles my garbage and deserves a tip and gratitude more than some waiter or waitress who wrote a simple order down, grabbed some drinks, and brought a plate of food out to me. Quit acting like your job is some noble, difficult profession cuz it’s not.
Well put.
Your trashman is paid a liveable wage; servers in the U.S. are not paid a liveable wage. Your comparison is foolish.
I appreciate what DAve said. A tip has to be EARNED. Its not DUE the waitstaff because they showed up to work. He hit the nail on the head. Its professionalism. And yes, a server can be professional. And be proud of it. Be good at what you do. Its not called the hospitality industry for no reason.
Wait staff is a pet peeve of mine. I’ve noticed a STEADY decline in wait staff over the last 40 years. A tip is EARNED not DESERVED, even in light of the fact that they are paid only a few bucks an hour. Wait staff ought to be friendly and courteous, NOT budy buddy. I absolutely hate it when the server walks up and says “hi guys”. It may seem simple, but I don’t appreciate the excessive familiarity. It’s possible that I’m in a minority on that. Friendliness and cheerfulness is NOT familiarity. Now, it not ought be like 1900 when there was some huge class distinction because there was little middle class, more like upper and lower alone and the uppity uppers treated wait staff like less than human. Not going there. But…that said….a server…serves. And its not rocket science. an establishment may be busy. Understood. Not my problem. Its BUSINESS. Its the server’s responsibility to make sure I have ALL my utensils. its not rocket science. I don’t expect to hafta ask for more water. Not the instant I put my glass down. Within reason. If the server is too busy….management is not doing its job in providing enough staff. Likewise, I don’t want the server being over zealous and asking me if everything is ‘alright’ every other minute. I’ve had that occur as well. Its annoying. I’m not being cranky. Being an above average server is just NOT rocket science.
Be courteous, respectful, prompt and duly attentive. Not that hard.
If the server is poor, I ALWAYS mention it to the manager and if the server is above average, likewise I ALWAYS mention it to the manager as well.
I leave a good tip for above average service. 20%. I leave a PENNY, for below average service to make my feelings KNOWN.
@Nunya Business — IMO, if tipping really must be done, then doing it your way makes an abundant amount of sense.
@ Nunya – as a young adult (some years ago) I was taught the following:
If you have great service, leave a big tip plus a penny
for extremely bad service, just leave the penny.
This used to be a way for a consumer to voice their opinion regarding the service.
@ Tom – the biggest problem is that wait staff think they are entitled to the tip, like it’s a birthright. Not the case; a tip is the consumer’s expression of the service.
Frankly, it’s your obligation as a consumer NOT to blindly support a bad server with a big tip. If they are not cut out for the job, they need to be pushed out. I don’t have time for servers who don’t have time for me.
And BTW, Tom, I tip well, usually over 20% for good service and still 15% for average service. I know they need the cash, but I need reasonable service. That is what I came for, in part, to be properly served. It’s not rocket science, either – be nice, be prompt and don’t screw up the order.
I start at 20% and go up or down from there based on service. Does the server easily adapt if I make a special request or do they roll their eyes? When my drink is empty, is the bartender getting me another one or is she on a smoke break? Speaking of smokes, please don’t come to my table or barstool smelling like an ashtray. I need my check, is it there promptly? Or is the server standing at the POS texting? Is my table well maintained? Are my empty appetizer plates still there long after they’ve been done with? Is the server pleasant? Smiling? Or grouchy? I have spent many years in the hospitality biz as server, bartender, manager and GM. The tip does not come before the service. It must be earned. Nobody owed me 15-20% because they sat at my table or bar. I had to earn it from each and every table, each and every guest, no matter how good or bad my day had been. It’s called professionalism.
Tip 20% or don’t go out. Your waiters and waitresses are normal people who occasionally text at work and don’t love being there all the time.
Good on ya Tom. Way to add to the conversation.
The only problem is that your completely wrong and Dave is exactly right. A good portion of servers don’t like to serve. They believe that their entitled to your money no matter what they do. Dave writes clearly what he expects when he goes out and he is right. People go out and pay marked up food costs so that they don’t have to cook and clean up after themselves. Do their jobs and they get a tip, don’t and you get jack.
Tom, you sound like the sort of server it would be a pleasure to stiff for a tip. I guess you forgot to read the part where Dave Danis says he tips for more than 20% based on service.
If you’re texting people at work while you’re supposed to be waiting on tables then you are cheating your employer for the time you take to do that. And if you are making paying customers wait while you’re fooling around with your cellphone, then you deserve to get stiffed every time. You want to text? Do it on your own time, during your break.
If you don’t love being at work all the time, and if serving customers is such a chore, you shouldn’t be in the service industry. Why don’t you quit so that somebody who is unemployed can earn a living instead?
A 20% tip for you would be money wasted, because it would re-enforce your shoddy work ethic. The customer is actually doing the business owner a favor by stiffing lazy wait staff, because the business owner can’t always give you the close supervision you seem to need. The best way to discipline laziness is to always refuse to pay for it.
I’m not a server so a tip for me would, indeed, be wasted.
And the fact that ‘Chieftain’ you would say “the best way to discipline laziness…” shows how important you think you are. You are not disciplining anyone, nor it is your job (though apparently you think you need to be the floor manager of whatever Chili’s you frequent) to discipline employees that don’t work for you. Servers probably call you a cheap ass after you leave, but that’s about it. Your ego is astounding.
My point about texting at work was that everyone, no matter where they work, goof off a little: checking Facebook, calling friends from their cubicle or chatting with neighbors when they come in. To single out a server b/c you saw them texting is silly. Maybe they have a good reason. Maybe they are texting their boss for supplies, or with a question. Since you do not know, you probably shouldn’t discipline them on your own. And since you don’t work their, you should probably leave the discipline to the manager and stick a few extra dollars on your tip Cheap-O.
Tom,
Your point about texting was dumb the first time you made it, and it hasn’t gotten any smarter with repetition. Moreover, if you goof off at work in this rotten economy, you’re even dumber than I thought. Texting, checking Facebook, chatting with friends while customers fume — if you worked for me I’d fire your ass immediately the first time I caught you doing that.
Whether or not it’s my job to discipline restaurant employees is something you could not possibly know — and lucky for you, you won’t ever have to find out.
One thing’s certain: when I’m a restaurant customer it certainly *isn’t* and shouldn’t be my job to pay the wait staff — and that’s for real!
And so I never do. No tips. And that’s another great reason to live in New Zealand.
If you aren’t a server, Tom, perhaps there’s a good reason for that: with a bit of hard work, application, and less fooling around on the job you, too, could be a wait staff.
Do they call the people where you pretend-to-work “counter staff”, or “attendant”?
The argument that you are stealing from the employers if you’re not working every single second is ridiculous. The $2.13/hr that restaurants begrudgingly fork over by law is a formality–one that most waiters could do without. That check often comes out to around $20 for a two week pay period. Often it’s less or you actually owe money depends on whether you report lots of tips. That’s because the service industry is a giant tax evasion scheme. Restaurants get an army of essentially unpaid labor to keep their business running, and the customers are encouraged, at their prerogative, to chip in. They of course don’t have to, and have every right not to. But most people feel like a $20 bill entitles them to have their ass kissed repeatedly. As a customer, I couldn’t care less about the attitude of the person that brings the food. They could ask me to go back to the kitchen and pick it up when it’s done, or the cook could bring it out for all I care. But that would limit high-volume sales–which is the only way to make a shitload of money as a restaurant owner, and the only way to break a $100 in a night as a waiter.
“And since you don’t work their…..” It’s there, not their. And they’re means they are. Enough said about your opinion.
Right on!
Tom,
You aren’t very nice. If i need to go, and see my server ignore me, or smell like smoke, I will be angry. The only place to resolve this is in the tip. How to reinforce BAD behavior? Reward it!
Chieftain you are a fool.
What on earth does having self respect have to do with tipping your server anyway? You say you earn your money the hard way. I guess that’s supposed to make you better than the people that serve you. Your job is so much harder than everyone else’s. What a joke you are. You’re not even making sense.
“If you want to pretend to be Little Lord Fauntleroy and tip people you believe to be your Servants, then more the fool you. (SO I’M A FOOL FOR TIPPING?) And more the fool them for letting you get away with it,(WHY WOULD THEY STOP ME FROM TIPPING?) without giving you a jolly good piece of their mind afterwards?” (WHY WOULD THEY GIVE ME A PIECE OF THEIR MIND? I TIP WELL.) You don’t even know what you’re talking about. I don’t tip well b/c I’m trying to curry favor. I tip well because I’m not a jerk. You don’t tip… guess what that makes you?
And why would someone who admitted that he never tips even be on a message board about tipping? You know nothing about tipping, you even said so. That’s like me going on a New Zealand tourism board and saying New Zealand sucks and everyone should listen to my opinion cause “I’m a big deal at the really hard place I work.” Idiotic.
No one cares about where you work or why you would never stoop so low as to take a tip. The message board is about tipping. If you never tip, then why are you on this board?
Tom, *you* are a fool, and an imbecile besides. Had you done your homework, you will have noticed that I (long ago) posted my New Zealand nationality to this thread. MONTHS ago.
Moreover, *you* are a foreigner here mate, not me. In this world there are way more non-Americans than Yanks.
There is no honor or dignity in answering a fool with his own folly.
(GRIN!) Wade, on the strength of that, when you do come back to visit New Zealand your first jug of ice-cold NZ beer at the Henderson RSA Club — where tipping is not only unnecessary but *prohibited* — will be my shout. Might as well get the Kiwi hospitality started properly, I reckon.
(Here in Auckland NZ I’m not at all difficult to track down.)
*Chieftain*
It’s a deal brother! I never pass up the offer for free beer as long as I can return the favor. It’d be an honor and privilege to make it back to NZ. Truly a bunch of stand up people as I’ve ever had the pleasure of meeting.
Radracer — Excellent! See ya there.
This is the Internet, meaning global and anybody can come in and comment on anything they please. Like you never pipe up on foreign matters, Tom. I’ve been to New Zealand right before an after my unit went to Antarctica and a week before the earth quake in Christchurch. I’m an American and very proud of it but I honestly had the best time of my life in NZ and getting to know the NZ Army soldiers that worked with us in Antarctica. Some of the best people I’ve met and their culture is a complete 180 degrees from ours- they have a culture of physical fitness that was amazing and they also had a culture of hospitality that far exceeded ours in America. I spent time out in town at bars and restaurants and the service was top notch and I didn’t have to sweat a tip. I don’t like to tip, I’ll admit it. I do it but I don’t enjoy it. I think we could learn some things from some of these other countries in how they do things. Somebody mentioned Japan and its the same there, they view tips as an insult and refuse. They keep each other in check and their satisfaction of a job well done is reinforced internally through their work ethic and belief system, not by a tip from some stranger. Don’t be so quick to discount what people in other countries do because some of them have outstanding values and ideas.
Wade, you completely missing the point. I said someone who never tips should not be commenting on a board about tipping. I have never been in the military, so if I’m commenting on how easy I think it is to be in the military and why they should all act a certain way, I really have no idea what I’m talking about, right? That was my point to Chieftain.
Also, now you’ve said that you tip 20%, AND then you said you tip so extravagantly that your wife gets upset, so you don’t tip that well. NOW you say you admit it, but you don’t like to tip. I could ask you what the real answer is and how you really tip, but I already know. Because I knew from the beginning, if you’re on here defending the idea of taking dollars away from a server based on your own sliding scale than I’m sure you are a lousy tipper. The funny part is that it is always the lousy tippers who THINK they are tipping well or that they are making a statement with their tips. No, you’re not. Lousy tippers think they are doing the world a service with 18%.
Stop changing your story to fit every argument. No one cares about your military background or your travels abroad, or your opinions on how tipping differs in every other country. No one cares that you’ve been attacked by bats and angry husbands. The message board was about tipping your server here in the USA, what does that have to do with anything you did in the military? Stop wasting everyone’s time with your opinions and stories on everything else.
Wade, I am delighted you enjoyed your time in New Zealand. South Island (where you were, from the sounds of things) is a magical place. You didn’t say whether you got to North Island or not — if not be sure to visit again, check out Rotorua (the volcanic plateau is unlike anything else on this planet, defying description) and especially find your way up to Northland and the Bay of Islands, where it is always summer. Definitely worth the trip!
And — as you experienced in South Island — there is no tipping anywhere in New Zealand. It’s not expected and we’re just happy if our visitors have a great time.
I, too, have had many great times in the United States, and count some really fantastic Americans as my good friends.
I absolutely enjoyed my time in NZ chieftain and the only bad part was I could only spend about a week total. It broke my heart when the earthquake hit and I have pics of the cathedral before it got destroyed. We didn’t get up north but going back is on my to-do list. I felt like a welcome guest in every establishment I went, had fantastic service, awesome food, and I wasn’t expected to pony up extra for it. I love America but we could take a page out of New Zealand’s book as far as that goes. There are other countries out there in this world who do things different- some times better, some times worse- but all he has to base his arguments off of is what he sees in the US because that’s all he knows. I think I’ll save the money I’m supposed to use for tips to save up for a trip back to NZ. Cheers.
The article is about tipping in the U.S., fools. If we learn anything from foreign countries, it would be to pay waiters a living wage. In the U.S., restaurant prices are lower because the waiters are essentially unpaid employees. Nobody could live indoors in Japan or New Zealand or the U.S. on $2 per hour. And for anyone who “expect(s) my food in 10 minutes or less depending on what I order,” you have no understanding of how a kitchen works. Slow service of food is nearly NEVER because of the waiter, it is because of the kitchen. Stay in your countries and do what you want but don’t come here because you don’t understand how things work in other countries nor do you have the ability to adapt to other countries’ customs. 15% is good for lunch. 18 – 20% is good for dinner. Less than 10%, even for what you deem to be “poor service,” is disrespectful and shows a lack of self-respect. unless a waiter screams at you, there is never a reason to go lower in the U.S because your food prices were already lower than they should reasonably be. And to Chieftain, you are never allowed to discipline ANYONE, except your children or your employees, scumbag.
The article is about tipping in the United States ONLY.
Meanwhile, most definitely — if your travels find you in Auckland NZ there is an ice-cold pitcher of NZ beer at the Henderson RSA with your name on it. I am not difficult to track down.
When in Auckland, be sure to check out Piha Beach, on our rugged West Coast. It is truly stunning, and quite often deserted. It’s one of the best surf beaches in the world, and the locals at Piha village are a very friendly, small, tight-knit community: very much like small-town America is depicted in old Walt Disney movies. The Black Sands Lodge is highly recommended, and is run by a friend of mine and her partner.
The surf itself can be dangerous for kids to swim in, because there are strong riptides (therefore always swim between the flags!) However, there is also a nice quiet lagoon that is reasonably safe and family-friendly. There are also penguin colonies — they migrate to Piha from Antarctica, and back. At the right times of the year you might even see them.
If your duties in the US Armed Forces send you in Harm’s Way (as often happens these days), Piha Beach is a great place to de-stress and decompress. Life moves at a very s-l-o-w pace there, even by NZ standards. And — as mentioned elsewhere — the No Tipping rule applies in Piha NZ, too.
*Chieftain*
Hey cheiftain,
Excuse my ignorance, but what is an RSA?
From context it almost sounds like the VFW here in the US.
While I am not in the armed forces, My brother and father are, I decided to serve in a different capacity, on our local fire dept.
The argument that you are stealing from the employers if you’re not working every single second is ridiculous. The $2.13/hr that restaurants begrudgingly fork over by law is a formality–one that most waiters could do without. That check often comes out to around $20 for a two week pay period. Often it’s less or you actually owe money depends on whether you report lots of tips. That’s because the service industry is a giant tax evasion scheme. Restaurants get an army of essentially unpaid labor to keep their business running, and the customers are encouraged, at their prerogative, to chip in. They of course don’t have to, and have every right not to. But most people feel like a $20 bill entitles them to have their ass kissed repeatedly. As a customer, I couldn’t care less about the attitude of the person that brings the food. They could ask me to go back to the kitchen and pick it up when it’s done, or the cook could bring it out for all I care. But that would limit high-volume sales–which is the only way to make a shitload of money as a restaurant owner, and the only way to break a $100 in a night as a waiter.
.
Not a single person works every second of their time at a job. Anyone who says they do is a liar.
Since when are employees allowed to have their phones while working? I would not go back to a place where a server is texting when I need them. Why wouldn’t you tell the owner? Not only are they cheating the guest but the other servers, who have to pick up behind those kind of servers.
Dave is utterly right and you are comically wrong.
“Tip 20% or don’t go out.” Um, how about no. How about I do what I please with my own time and money and if I want to have a meal somewhere I tip what I feel was earned. You miss the point of customer service and I’m not going to try and school you on it because it would be lost. Yes, some of us text at work. Some of us get bored and get on Funny or Die. That’s life and we’re human. Sometimes I fart real quiet and don’t own up to it. But if you are texting where waiting customers can see you then you don’t deserve much. Maybe you’re texting your sick daughter who you can’t take care of cuz you’re working – understood. Life happens and I understand that but go in the back or where customers can’t see you and do it. Dave is one of the more liberal tippers and starts out at 20%, whereas I start at 10% and you have to earn more than that with me. Go ahead, tell me how I don’t have the right to eat out and tell me how the waitstaff better not upset high and mighty me and I’ll tell you you are right. I’m tired of being treated like a non-entity in a place and then expected to tip. Dave is a person I can relate to. You are somebody I would like to high five in the face with an office chair.
Well, Wade you agree with me about texting and slight goofing off at work, but apparently are so inflamed that I say you should tip 20% that you felt the need to comment. Tip whatever you want for your food or for your service. Just don’t sit there in judgement of the people who wait on you and short their tip a couple dollars when they don’t jump through enough hoops for you.
My problem is not with the amount people on this board say they tip (Because we all know they are tipping lower than they say) My problem is with the attitude on this page. Serving is a tough, thankless job and sometimes I get a server that sucks too, but i don’t judge them and withhold money just to make a point or make them feel bad. These are people trying to get by like everyone else. If you ever worked in the industry you would know how bad customers can be to their servers. Some people are downright mean b/c they are unhappy in their own lives and finally get a chance to bully someone around. I’ve seen it and its an ugly thing.
And if i actually read my comment 100 times before I sent it, I probably would’ve finished the thought in the sentence starting “Just as I’m sure you Dave Danis…” but i did think your comment was funny.
I do agree with you about goofing off at work because we all do it. This isn’t communist China- we can have fun at work. I also agree that you don’t know what the sever may be texting about; it indeed could be work-related, family issues, etc. and honestly if it doesn’t interfere with my simple expectations from him/ her then I don’t give two flips. The fact of the matter is perception is everything and even if it’s a legit reason, go somewheres unseen and do it. I felt the need to comment not because you said to tip 20% I commented because you made an idiotic personal attack on somebody because they didn’t think like you or share your opinion. And I don’t share your opinion about serving being a thankless job. Nor is it overly hard. I’ve served my whole life in jobs that are exponentially harder and I didn’t always get a thank you. Case in point- I was an MP in the Marines. I worked 12 hour shifts but factor in that we had to be downstairs for pre-brief an hour prior. Oh, if it was a physical training day on M, W, or F then we had to wake up at 3 am to be finished by 0430 so we could shit, shower, and shave by 0500. Work from 0600-1800 and then wrap up our paperwork which would often carry us to about 2100-2200. That’s on average 18 hours a day, 15 if we were lucky. And then there’s a little thing called running guard where we didn’t have enough MP’s for a day off. We did that frequently and I went 20 and 30 plus days in a row without a day off numerous times. And my job consisted of enforcing simple laws to putting my self in danger and responding to domestic assaults with violent Marines with weapons in the home. I’ve been attacked with base ball bats, cussed at, berated, assaulted physically, etc by the very same people I would risk my life for to protect. So don’t whine about how serving is a thankless job because I say thank you every time I go out to eat, even when the service sucked. How many thank you’s do you want to guess I got while doing my job? Yeah, I thought so.
You get what you give. If you are treated like a non-entity, it’s probably because you are. After years in the business, I can recognize you a mile away and make sure the most junior server gets to wait on you or set you at the bar where you won’t alienate the waitstaff.
Wade, you get paid a living wage — that is your ‘Thank you.”
You also get free health care and free meals. Plus discounts everywhere because of your job. In the US, you can’t watch 10 guys bounce a ball without lying prostate in adoration of the military.
Wade, if you aren’t prepared to tip twenty percent for great service, go to Taco Bell. You aren’t there to test the servers patience. You get treated as you treat others. If people are getting high and mighty, you must be doing something to cause this. A tip is not a donation for a performance. It’s hard work, long hours (now) and we work basically for a sales commission.
Yes, you basically work for a sales commission – a sales commission that is at my discretion. If you do not like what I tip then go tell your manager that you refuse to serve me. He might even kick me out of the restaurant, but I doubt it. Because if I reduce my tip then there is a good reason to do so and I will let him/her know about it. And no, I am not prepared to tip 20%. I am prepared to tip 15% for adequate service and I will certainly up it to 20% or more if the service exceeds my expectations. If you are unhappy with the tips you are making then you can do one of two things: 1. Take a good long look at yourself and your performance and see if there is anything you can do to improve your customer’s perception of you; or 2. Vote with your feet – the door is that way. I have 15 years experience waiting tables and the only reason I got a degree and left was because I wanted benefits to start a family. I loved my job, my customers, and my income was pretty good for a single guy. I had some crappy customers but they were few and far between and I also found that the world reacts in kind to your own actions and attitude.
always, violence is the only way to communicate for some people. ugly…
Sorry, don’t bring your personal issues to the workplace. This is especially true for servers and others who are in hospitality. People go out to enjoy themselves.
A few other “tips” for servers. Each of these will reduce your tip from my standard 20%:
1. Skip smoke breaks. The foul odor clings to you when you return to work. It is not pleasant and does not enhance the experience. (-10%)
2. Listen. I don’t want to repeat my order. -5%
3. Write it down. I am not impressed by your amazing memory since most servers will get it wrong. -5%
4. And don’t address customers as sweetie, darlin’, honey or anything other than sir or m’am. -5%
Don’t visit the South. Most everyone is honey, sweetie and darlin’. It’s how many Southern women talk. Of course, if you are in a suit or wearing your Sunday finery, a more formal tone is taken. You ought to up the quality of establishments if you want more formal treatment.
I agree!! I love to walk into my favorite breakfast spot in New Orleans and hear my waitress say, “What can I get for you, my baby?” Formality is good, but in some places being treated like an old friend can be even better.
Then get a job in another profession. Who likes to be at any job all the time? Don’t expect to be rewarded with 20 percent unless you deserve it.
I think this article is way too slanted. It is written from a Bias point of view.
It is a service possition which mean you have to provide service, good service without fail everytime. If you take a day off from good service and I am one of those you poorly served then it will show in your tip, if you even get one. Its not my fault that you chose that line of work, its not my fault the industry chooses to not pay you. In fact its one of the only industies that expects the customer to pay their employees.
Yeah, right….as the article suggest to personally confront or talk to the server about their poor performance? I did’nt go out to eat and to relax to be put in that situation.
Simple, no service = low or no tip. Poor food = no tip, slow service = low or no tip, bring me the wrong food = low or no tip(why didnt you check it before you brought it to me, just read the ticket and look over my meal to make sure I am getting what I ordered).
I know the waitresses cant help what management or the cooks or buss boys do, but how else do you send a message? The waitress should take her complaints to management or the cooks and let them no that THEY effect her tip. That is how they will improve themsleves. Its on them not me.
If I owened a resturaunt I would have a highly motivational and inspiring and detailed, hands on live practice training program that would gaurantee every server would get tips. If they dont pass the training or I feel they just are not personable enough and attentive enough then they can find someplace else to work. My customers would NEVER be held accountable or expected to just live with bad service.
Here is what I expect.
– Please visit me within 5 minutes of me sitting down. Immediately offer to get me drinks. IM THIRSTY !
– When you bring me drinks (within 5 minutes) please be prepared to take my order.
– I expect my food in 10 minutes or less depending on what I order.
– Please refill my drinks without me asking or waving you down.
– Please do not buss tables while I am waiting, I am hungry and thirsty. Get someone else to do it, let you managment know your customers come first.
– I expect you to look over my food to make sure it looks good and is correct BEFORE you bring it to me.
– while I am eating please stop by at least one time to check on me, you cant read my mind and I cant read yours. Please check on me at least once to ask me how the food is. Its important that you care since I cant really go back in the kitchen and have a conversation with the cook.
If you can do just thos minimum basics i will be glad to tip you 20%+
ALSO, if there is a complaint, bad food, a mix up. Dont let that problem lye. Please take it up with the rest of your peers so it doesnt happen again, if that doesnt work go to managment and explain how it effects you. Communication is the only way this will get fixed and not effect your tips in the future.
Im sorry, but you ARE the face of your resturant. Its like playing the QB possition or Golie. You either get all the blame or all the credit.
P.S I didnt make up the rules, I am only playing within the rules of your industry. Please accept that and do your part.
“I expect my food in 10 minutes or less depending on what I order” You are unreasonable. Go eat fast food garbage. Good quality food will never be prepared in 10 minutes.
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