I can go one higher than that….an elderly lady moved into my old apartment, fell out of bed and broke her hip. She was unable to tend to her own needs before…so why was she in an apartment? The landlady said that her kids did not want to waste THEIR INHERITANCE on a nursing home or other independent care facility. They complained about 700 a month in rent. Once again, so much for that “take care of you when you get old” bingo….actually it took care of her nicely since she died shortly after. I bet they are still fighting about the will. Hopefully this won’t be you when you are old…but the odds are against that.

You can throw a shitload of bingos at CF folks but what are you really contributing to society? The next Nobel Prize winner or the next serial killer? Once again, odds are against the first one. Your kids will probably be like you….extra-ORDINARY. If you are lucky, that is.

Family does not necessarily require breeding your own little replicants. Family can be spouses, blood relatives, close friends, even adopted kids if one chooses to parent. And if I request to be buried in my D&G I CAN take it with me.

Choosing to have kids IS the most SELFISH thing someone can do.

Let us assume for the moment that someone who chooses to have kids is making a decision which most benefits that person, or else that person would not make that decision. And let us assume for the moment that someone who chooses not to have kids is also making a decision which most benefits that person.

The difference between these two people is that the have-children person expects others, including those who choose not to have children, to subsidize (i.e. using resources, getting tax breaks, favors and benefits in the workplace, tolerating other’s children in places they have no business being in) the choice of the have-children person, while the person who chooses NOT to have children neither expects nor receives any benefits from the have-children people because of the choice he or she made.

That is the essence of the “Who is selfish?” debate. Each is making a decision which best suits himself or herself, but one expects the other to bear some of the costs of that decision, while the other does not. This is why those who have children are selfish while those who do not have children are not selfish.

And tell me, Mommy23angels, what makes you so sure someone will be on the deathbed of a childed person? The nursing homes are filled with elderly childed folks whose kids never visit them (because they put them in there to keep them away from the adult children who want nothing to do with them other than inheriting from them). Did you even bother to read the posts my fellow CFers and I made about why SAHMs should not be paid or did you just go on your worthless rant to try to unsuccessfully put us down and make yourself feel better for the poor lifestyle choice you made to have kids?

BTW, SAHMOF5, I am 46, male, and retired as of last November. I was able to get out of the rat race called work by not having any kids. Unlike you, I do not depend on others (i.e. spouse) to pay for my living expenses. And, with some of my added time, I can do more of my volunteer work with several area schools [so you can't call me some evil "child-hater" or any of those other stereotypes you SAHMs have about us CF (childfree) folks]. I enjoy a quiet, peaceful life without children. YOU should be jealous of ME!

You moms (and the media), NOT the rest of us, are the ones trying to make yourselves feel better with these ridiculous claims of deserving astronomical “salaries” for taking care of your OWN children that they CHOSE to have! And yes, you do earn your share in your household. That is the point! You don’t work, but your husband supports you, so in essence he is “paying” you.

As someone said earlier, the rest of us don’t try to claim we should be paid for doing the things EVERYONE has to do, so why do so many moms think they’re any different?

And, why do we never hear “Dads should earn $$$$ for what they do” around Father’s Day?

Seriously? FIVE children?! What’s there to be jealous of? If I were in your situation, I’d kill myself. And probably my kids, too.

After you shat out 5 kids, I’d bet you good money that hubby is boinking some fine young tart on the side. Goodness knows he’s not getting any from you… Not that he would be interested in you that way. He could probably drive a Volvo into your Vulva.

I’ll just continue to enjoy my unencumbered relationship with my fiance while you do “the most important job in the world”.

As for the topic of the OP, so much for motherhood “being it’s own reward”.