Ever since I applied and started using my Citibank Premier Elite Level Card, I stopped using my Wells Fargo credit card…. It seems like my bank realized that they just lost one of their good customers since I got this letter from them today about upgrading me to a different credit card.? See the letter I got from them below.
Dear MoneyNing,
Your Wells Fargo Visa credit card is being upgraded to a Wells Fargo Visa Signature card shortly….. It features several distinct benefits not available on any other Wells Fargo card, and is only available to select customers.
This August, you will receive a new credit card and account number ….. there is no additional cost.
Additional Signature Benefits
The Signature cost offers the same rate and benefits you currently enjoy, plus these added features:
Automatic travel and dining services When you use your Visa Signature card, you’ll enjoy hotel room upgrades, car rental insurance, lost luggage reimbursement, dining privileges for hard-to-get reservations and more.Complimentary Concierge Service – Want to send a dozen roses? Locate a hard-to-find item? For the personal assistance you need 24/7, just call or go online with your request and we’ll make the arrangements.
No pre-set spending limit – If you need to spend more like during vacations or your purchases cannot be declined based on a pre-set spending limit.
Other benefits – Your card also includes benefits that make your purchases even more secure such as:
Trip Cancellation Coverage, Warranty Manager Service, and Purchase SecurityWhat You Need To Do
The effective date for these changes is July 27, 2007. At that time, you will be issued a new card and you will automatically receive the benefits??you currently enjoy with no change in service.Sincerely,
Wells Fargo Employee #383134
Senior Vice President
Wells Fargo Card ServicesP.S. If you don’t wish to receive your Visa Signature card, or have any questions about the upgrade, please call us at 1-866-229-6633 by July 20, 2007.
First of all, I did not ask to be upgraded, nor do I want to.? Wells Fargo basically is sending me a letter to tell me to re-read all the Ts & Cs since the new card will have different ones.? Some of those so called benefits sound good, but everyone knows how marketing can make anything seem nicer than they really are.
It does give me a way to deny the upgrade, but why do I have to go deny this when they should ask me permission to upgrade me in the first place?
Actually, I was not really upset until I saw the No pre-set spending limit as a benefit. How can they call this a benefit? For so many of us, the spending limit is the only thing keeping us from going further into debt! I checked my Citibank credit card I recently applied (the reason why I do not use the Wells Fargo card anymore) and the Citibank card also has a no spending limit clause. Am I missing something? What is the point of the credit limit anymore?
For those of us that are still on the way to paying every month balance in full, be careful. Remember to read every term and conditions, and even the benefits for potential pitfalls. I wish those credit card comparison websites will list these in their review instead of focusing mainly on rewards.
For those that need help when they apply for a credit card, email me and I can send a post here so everyone can help.
Everyone is out to make money even at your expense. Be disciplined and do everything to keep debt low. If you have to open a credit card, at least get 0% balance transfer credit cards.
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{ 43 comments… read them below or add one }
Companies will always try to make money off you. In a way, that’s how this world works. Just remember to check and re-check all the fine print so you don’t get caught up in a mess without knowing.
What you just said is exactly the problem though since most people don’t read the T and Cs. I mean “yeah you should” but who does?
Oh my. Don’t change your credit card too often!
Guys: I’m just upset because they are enrolling people automatically without really telling them what this entitles. To me, this means they are not being responsible enough.
I haven’t really used my Wells fargo for a couple of months. I only keep it because it was my first credit card and has the longest credit history.
Wonder if they’re going to upgrade me as well
J2R: Not quite sure how they determine who/when to upgrade. I might call them and ask (I actually called them once to ask how you qualify for the gold check card and they said “everyone gets one”). Now they have a platinum one so I might call them again to ask
Credit cards without pre-set spending limits can be very damaging to your credit score–since there is no true credit limit to report, most companies simply report the outstanding balance, making it appear to the credit scoring system that the card is maxed out at all times.
Wow I never knew that! Thanks for sharing!
I better ask Wells Fargo what they will report to the credit company after they “upgrade” me.
This is another reason why I don’t want people to automatically do things without my consent.
Now wait a second…
What EXACTLY is a “no limit” card.
It’s not really unlimited — otherwise they couldn’t calculate your debt to credit ratio as part of your FICO score.
Sounds to me more like they calculate your limit on the fly based on some formula — it’s not “pre-set” because it can always be in flux (and you therefore don’t have any way of knowing what your limit actually is). The only way to determine your limit would be when you hit it.
This sounds rather underhanded to me.
Kevin: The wording “pre-set” actually came from the letter itself so even Wells Fargo is calling it no pre-set limit.
Tiffany earlier in the comment section mentioned that credit companies simply report the oustanding balance as the credit limit which will ruin your credit score.
I’m not sure exactly how it will work yet but the letter says that there isn’t a way to hit my limit, hence the no pre-set limit statement.
They have to pay for all those extra ‘benefits’ somehow. Make sure your new card doesn’t come with a new annual fee.
Bob
Bob: You pointed out an obvious area that I missed. I should double check about the annual fee since they did not mention this.
Thank you!
I found this website because I got two calls on my cell today from (866) 229-6633. I don’t pick up calls unless there’s something on Caller ID.
I’m glad I didn’t pick up. What a bunch of f**king crooks.
denco: Wow I never knew someone would find my site because of the numbers
I’m glad to help though!
MoneyNing: I got the same offer and called them up what changes. They said that only the appearance and the number would change but the T&C will stay the same – including no fees whatsoever. Just curious what you found out about a possible impact on the credit score. Today is my deadline to decline .. still deciding .. the additional benefits are just too tempting
To the person who posted the original post, I recommend cutting up all your cards(including the Citi one), don’t use them at all. From what you just said about spending limit, you seem like to be the kind of person who SHOULD NOT be using credit cards. Spending limit is a power to YOUR benefit in case you need to buy something out of your normal spending range, having a limit is NOT a benefit, it is an inconvenience. If you can’t use your power well, don’t keep the cards! Visa signature is VISA’s answer to American Express centurion cards(or the ‘black card”), it was supposed to be offered to those with excellent credit and decent income. I personally appreciate this upgrade to my old WF platinum visa. And just FYI, WF is the most conservative financial institution out there today(only AAA rated bank in US), they do not just give you a card unless you have a decent track record in credit use. Another reason why I said you shouldnt use your card is because the way you didnt even know about the terms offered to you by Citi Bank when you first applied! Disclosures are presented to us for us to READ through. I would be embarrassed to tell everyone on internet that I applied for something and I did not read through every term on the application. Finally, a friendly advice, read everything before you sign anything next time. You probably have a good credit because you have lower debt, but don’t tell people not to get the benefit of the new awesome VISA signature card just because you have some problems in controlling your spending.
to Moneyning,
Gold Card is not a “credit card”, it is a bank debit card with VISA logo on there, and it is not something “everyone gets”. What the banker meant was that everyone gets it if they qualify. Every bank has a pre-qualification process, if they do not get qualified via the ways WF uses to check their credit/depository history, then they won’t get a “gold card”.
Tiffany:
“Credit cards without pre-set spending limits can be very damaging to your credit score–since there is no true credit limit to report…”
This is half true. the second half is. You are confusing spending limit with CREDIT limit. Spending limit is subject to the credit card company’s approval. they hire a 3rd party risk assessor to determine if your “big transaction” can go through. If you had a $10000 WF platinum card being upgraded to a WF Visa Signature card, your credit limit(as shown on credit report) will remain $10,000. If you do not believe me, call up and ask.
Credit Expert: Hmm… I actually never knew that someone can “not” qualify for an ATM check card since the money is getting taken straight out of the bank. Anyhow, thanks for the update and at least the standard is platinum now I’m guessing. I may have to call them up and see though
MoneyNing:
That is probably because most of the people you know never had problems managing their finances or handling their bank accounts. A bank debit card/check card(not to be confused with ATM cards, since ATM cards do not have VISA logo on them) works like a “check”, you use it as if you are writing a check, if there are no money in the account, the bank would still approve the transaction for you because it takes 3 business days for a check card transaction to “settle”(like a check would “clear”). If there are no money inside the account at the end of settlement period, then the transaction will resulted in an overdraft or negative balance on your account(just like a bounced check). It does not ake your money out of your bank account real time as some people might falsely believe.
I suggest you call Wells Fargo up and ask them if someone who is ONLY qualified for Opportunity Checking(means has questionable credit or depository history) can get a WF Gold Card. I am very sure the answer will be no. Or better yet, ask them if ANYONE can be disqualified for a WF Gold Card.
This is so interesting, I’ve gotten the same (account upgrade) letter on exactly the same dates, followed by receiving the actual new card in the mail with a NEW account number. I’m not sure what’s going on here. I had not called the number to decline the upgrade and now wish that I had. When they send you the new card with the new account number, the clock starts ticking. In 90 days your old account will be CLOSED!!! And there is nothing you/they can do about it. You need to notify all vendors who are automatically billing that card or ebay types of relationships that you have a new account number. What a hassle for what??? If you now decide to decline the ‘upgrade’ guess what, they cancel the new card and issue you yet another new card with a new account number. The old number is permanenntly dead. I’ve seen some hints in the news that W F has been forced to modify some credit card T&Cs because of Congressional hearings, is this behind our ‘upgrades’? Something is going on here and apparently only time will bring it out into the open.
To ShermanGuy:
As it is true in many credit card T&Cs, they have the ability to cancel or modify or the nature of services anytime they want, and in this case, offer to upgrade your account automatically for both your and company’s benefit. You are asking all those hassles are for what, you can just review the additional benefits as stated above that your new credit card now has. That is what the hassles are for. I don’t think you should find that inconvenient since I trust that you log-on and review your bills every month even though they are automatically charged on your credit card. An extra step you take and now you have all thee benefits come with VISA Signature card, I don’t think it’s that bad of a deal? Personally, I think any rational individual would jump on this upgrade in less of a heart beat.
CreditExpert: That is good information. Since the check card acts as a cheque, would that imply that people will also be denied check writing priviledges?
ShermanGuy: Sometimes it’s quite hard to figure out what the real motive of companies are. We just have to be careful that the new card would not negatively hurt us in any way. The new account number might be a good thing since it forces you to analyze ALL your auto billing accounts which you can do a review to see if there are any that you can cut or did not know about.
As a side note, why does the visa signature card look like a credit card issued to high school students?
The fact check card acts as a check should not be relevant to check writing privileges. Check card is simply a modern alternative to check writing at locations accept check card payments. Check card is simply an alternative that does not reveal to anyone the numbers of the account and even fall into the wrong hands may not be wrongfully exploited due to pin code protection.
VISA signature cards vary from institution to institution, if you think the design is less than appealing, maybe you can give them a holler and let them know your thoughts.
Credit Expert: What I wanted to verify was whether some people would not be approved for writing checks either since it is the same as check cards and you are saying that not everyone is approved for check cards.
Maybe if I’m talking to them one day I may mention it, but I doubt I will call them up just to ask someone to listen to my comment about the look of the card!
MoneyNing:
I see what you are saying, and the answer is no if we are talking about the WF Opportunity Checking Account. A customer who is qualified for an Opportunity checking account(only offered at Wells Fargo, for those who wouldn’t otherwise been approved for checking account at other banks) will be able to have check writing ability even they do not qualify for check cards. The reason is simple, check cards with VISA logo actually works as a “credit card” of the bank as the VISA extends their credit for the bank to pay the customer’s transaction. The money is paid on the assumption that the bank will be able to get money to cover the deficit from the customer’s account after the settlement period. However, if the customer does not have any money in the account, the customer will have his account overdrawn and be in negative balance. Because it is unsecured, so the customer can actually ignore it and not have to pay it back(it will definitely be a big negative point on the person’s depository record, of course), if that happens… the bank has a realized loss due to customer’s insufficient fund. Since the overdraft will not be confirmed until 3 days settlement period, the customer technically can go and swipe multiple times and making the account go even deeper into the negative. The bank has more risk by letting the customer use the check card.
Check writing on the other hand, the money never leaves the bank until the check is cleared by the paying institution to be authentic, sufficiently funded, and negotiable. The risk is entirely on the person who accepted the check(that is why fewer vendors accept checks these days). The paying bank will simply reject the check(or bounce if you will) if there aren’t enough funds inside the bank. The bank has much lower risk of a loss letting customers write checks compare to the check cards. I hope that helps.
Credit Expert: That does help and is great information. I should group all this into a post and let other readers see what you have written since there is so much information on this particular subject here.
Do you want any other credits than your nickname?
No problem, MoneyNing, i just found this site randomly while googling and I thought I would just clarify a couple things, if you find my 2 cents helpful, you may use it at your disposal. I don’t need any other additional credits~ keep up the good work with your site!
Credit Expert: Thanks
Let me know if you have suggestion for me to improve my site because I’m always looking to make a better user experience since that’s the only way to grow my readership. I will put up some giveaways soon (probably early next week) so remember to stick around for that 
From the long and extremely technical responses, I have to assume that “CreditExpert” is an employee of Wells Fargo. Isn’t it amazing what lengths they have to go to these days to explain the use of something so simple as a credit card? Just look at all the things you have to fully understand in his/her response to completely comprehend how to use the WF “credit/debit/check” card or whatever it is anymore. WF keeps sending me debit/check cards and I keep sending them back. I just want and use an ATM card and want nothing to do with their debit card. That’s my personal preference, thank you. I removed the WF credit card from my wallet (in less than a heartbeat) and replaced it with another from the pile in the drawer.
I’m curious to see what they do when I do not activate my “new” card that was sent to me without asking. My previous card account will be CLOSED by WF (again without my asking) and the new card will not have been activated. What now WF?
BTW, we are not delinquent in any way and in fact do not carry a balance, but pay in full every billing cycle.
Sherman Guy:
My response to MoneyNing(I assume you are talking about the debit cad one) is really just an explanation of how “debit cards” work because most people under-estimate the power of such cards and often use it without understanding fully what they are doing. And by reading comments by people who lump “credit/debit/check card or whatever” altogether(you might as well put Kinko cards and Library cards in there, too), these people may get wrong information and that is a danger to the community as internet is a powerful media today. You may be paying off all your debts every cycle and not be delinquent, good for you, but many people might need quality and accurate info. Credit card companies make money off merchant services and people with revolving balance. Just because you do not need the information does not mean other Americans do not. Don’t be selfish. The fact that so many Americans are having problem paying off their credit cards or what not clearly shows the complexity of these cards, regardless of lenders. I guess that is why so many Americans are so far into debt and having problems with overdrafts in their “simple” bank accounts. It does not take a WF guy to tell you how it works because it works the same way as any other cards out there. People just need to know how “these cards” work, regardless of issuing institution.
Finally, I think if WF keeps on sending me a debit/check card WITHOUT my authorization, I would have called and asked who has been sending me these cards, and why? And make sure they keep that complaint on their record or something, at least talk to a supervisor about this, that would be my personal preference of telling them “no, thank you”. Be a bit more responsible and proactive with your personal finances.
CREDIT SCORE.CREDIT COMPANIES THAN OFFER NO PRE SET-LIMIT CARDS WILL,TYPICALLY,ALLOW CREDIT SCORING COMPANIES TO USE THE HIGHEST BALANCE IN PLACE OF THE LIMITE TO CALCULATE YOUR CREDIT UTILIZATION.SO IF THE CARDHOLDER HAS A $9.000 BALANCE ONE MONTH,THAT BECOMES THE LIMIT USED FOR CREDIT UTILIZATION.Regards.Robert
After reading the many responses on this site, I became worried about the impact of my new VISA Signature card. I called up USBank and the rep was very knowledgeable. Here’s what he told me:
Me: “What do you report to the credit bureaus regarding my utilization if I have no pre-set spending limit?”
USBank Rep: “While you have no more credit limit, you still have a ‘revolving limit’ of $xxx that we report to the agencies. You can spend more than $xxx on a given month because you have no limit, but you cannot carry a monthly balance greater than your revolving limit, or $xxx. Your ‘revolving limit’ is the same as your previous ‘credit limit’.
Me: “My card has a new number. If I activate it, will you close my previous account? I don’t want to lose my credit history for this card just because of an upgrade I didn’t ask for.”
USBank Rep: “Your account is the same, we just issue a new number for the card. It’s equivalent to the new number we’d give you if you, say, lost your card and we re-issued a new number for security. Your credit card history remains intact since you opened the account in xxxx.”
So it turns out that a simple call answered my questions. I activated my new card and can take advantage of the new perks.
Thanks, visaguy, for verifying the facts from another source.
A couple of points to add here. With the electronic check laws that were passed recently, all checks (including check cards and the like) will be authenticated against the bank they were issued from and the money will be held until the transaction has fully posted (usually within less than 24 hours). This means that the check will be rejected if you do not have sufficient funds. Basically, they have changed the operation of writing a check and having it “float” into an (almost) instantaneous one similar to swiping your debit card. Now this does only apply to facilities that are equipped with the electronic check verification systems (Wal-Mart, etc). At most of these places, they will even just hand the check back to you. It’s of no use to them anymore once the electronic verification has taken place.
As for the set spending limit vs credit limit. A spending limit is more of an annoyance and is only in place for the safety of the credit company. It means that you can only run up to $xxxx in one transaction or within a given period. Your actual credit limit is the one that is important to you as your debt-to-limit ratio is calculated from this. Your “soft” credit limit on the no-limit cards will be whatever the limit was on it before. Since credit limits MUST be reported to calculate a FICO score, they have to use something. Now you are kinda screwed if you spend anything over that but since they won’t allow you to revolve it beyond the end of the current billing cycle, you can see that you’ll just max out your credit limit which would be just as bad if you did it on a card with a “hard” credit limit.
My $0.02. Keep the change.
I just got approved for an American Express Clear Card with a 6k limit and no fees ever… in theory the card is a limitless credit line because the company will never charge an over the limit fee. Scary.
Just wanted to clarify a few things on the Wells Fargo Oppurtunity Checking as this is the account that I have. It DOES come with a gold card even though I have a terrible history with chexsystems not to mention a recent BK on my credit report. It doesnt matter. Also when I use this card at say Wal-Mart unlike a prior post it does come off my balance immediatly…not three days later. For example: If I have $40 available and purchase a $30 item at Wal-Mart I cannot go and purchase $20 at the grocery store…it will decline as my balance is only $10.
Hope this clears up some info on that part.
The “gold card” you are referring to, Courtney, is an “opportunity check card”. It is probably something they started to offer in the last 2 years, because in the past you would be only to have an ATM card.
My gold card is gold and has a visa logo on it.
Yes, but it still has the same risk-control features as the ATM Card available with Opportunity Checking, no deposits at the ATM and no ATM payment transactions. Wells Fargo also issues Secured Credit Card for those who cannot be qualified for the normal credit cards, but they look exactly the same.
I can make deposits at the ATM for you information…matter of fact I did one today for $400…so before you pass judgement maybe you should check the facts. The only real difference between a regular free account and a oppurtunity account is we can take a non wells fargo check and just cash it…we have to deposit it. Then of course we have to pay fees unlike the normal accounts but there are ways around that also. This is completely off the topic of the original post and I just wanted to clarify things with the Oppurtunity Checking.
And before you pass judgement on me…I have several credit cards including Visa, Discover, and an American Express all with credit limits over $10,000 and also own my own bookkeeping business. My credits have no balance and I dont use them unless I can pay the bill right away…the only reason I have this account is I had to file medical bankruptcy a year ago and cannot get past the credit check due to that. If it wasnt for having cancer at the age of 24 I wouldnt have filed the BK…my point dont judge a book by its cover as that seems to be what you are doing CreditExpert.
First of all, never in my messages to you explicitly or implicitly demonstrated I am passing any judgement on you, don’t get too defensive. I was simply stating the facts as I know and presented a counter-example(the secured card example), how many credit cards you currently have and how you use them is really not my business.
As of today, I have confirmed with Wells Fargo service rep that customers with Opportunity Checking relationship would have “Opportunity Check Card” that would in every way looks like a check card, but it is NOT the same thing. And yes, the OCC does not have ATM deposit feature. I do not know the explanation to your story as it was puzzling to the WF rep I spoke to.
As for the medical BK u had, or chapter 13, you can still carry your credit cards that you got prior to all of these. It just means that the creditors have the right to increase your interest rate or even cancel the cards if they feel you are more risky to them than before. There are no laws against creditors extending credit to those with bankruptcy on record.
Courtney, hi. Credit Expert is right. Credit Expert was not trying to dismiss you, CE was just explaining that there must have been a change in policy because –in the past — if you qualified for an opportunity checking account, then you were NOT going to get a gold debit card through wells fargo.
my own personal experience is that i applied twice with wells fargo: once in 2002 (i got an outright denial); and once a couple years later (I was still in chexsystems, so I got the ‘opportunity checking’ spiel, but was also told I would not be eligible for the card.)
i’m sorry about your cancer, and i hope it remains in remission.